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µo¨¥¤H:Simon, on Wed Sep 25/02 11:57:38 (IP code: 166.115)

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NO:1823_53
DignityTW ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/22 15:43
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NO:1823_54
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TR ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/22 15:58
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NO:1823_56
HitCat ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/22 17:48
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I support the view of ¬x©_©÷ and ¬q©y±d

Taipei Times, Nov 22, 2002

Delaying reforms could cost DPP dearly
By Hong Chi-Chang ¬x©_©÷ and Tuan Yi-Kang ¬q©y±d

On Sept. 23, former president Lee Teng-hui (§õµn½÷) said, The Ministry of Finance is trying to destroy the farmers and fishermens associations by having commercial banks take over their credit units. If it acts recklessly on policy affecting the farmers and fishermens associations, the DPP will have to be careful of losing power. Presi-dent Chen Shui-bian (³¯¤ô«ó) responded by saying that reform will continue even if it risks costing us power.
Chens statement was inspiring and people from all walks of life sought to generate ideas on how the NT$1.05 trillion Financial Restructuring Fund should be used. Eventually, however, under pressure from a series of planned marches and protests by farmers and fishermen, the government decided to suspend the implementation of risk-management measures aimed at regulating the associations credit units. That decision has brought a halt to the financial reform of the units.

In 1996, non-performing loans (NPL) extended by farmers and fishermens credit units totaled NT$72.3 billion. After six years, this has increased to NT$137 billion as of June this year. The NPL ratio was 8.57 percent in 1996, as opposed to 21.53 percent in June this year.

We will come to regret postponing grassroots financial reform if no action is taken soon.

The problem of financial reform was caused by the KMT administrations laissez-faire approach and procrastination, which it found beneficial in controlling local party factions.

The administrations decision to suspend the implementation of risk-management measures has halted some reforms that had already been set in motion.

The difficulty of grassroots financial reform lies in the complex ties between the farmers and fishermens associations and political factions, not from the implementation of financial measures. We believe that it is impossible to reform every aspect of the system; trying to make everyone happy will result in hypocrisy. We can only try our best to allay the opposition of vested interests. In the face of opposition from the targeted groups, we should neither hesitate nor flinch from our mission.

Grassroots financial reform is irrelevant to politics. The grass-roots financial institutions are a timebomb that could trigger a financial crisis at any time. Their senior officials do not belong to any particular party or faction; they care only about pursuing their own interests.

In 2000, the peoples disappointment with KMT reforms led to a change in government. Today, that same sense of disappointment has re-emerged. It is obvious that simple, vigorous reform does not necessarily result in loss of power. But the administration certainly risks losing power by advocating reform and then caving in to anti-reform protests.

Since the 2000 election, we, as founding members of the DPP, have felt increasingly powerless about the partys apparent abandonment of its past ideals and resolve.

Hong Chi-chang and Tuan Yi-kang are DPP legislators.

Translated by Grace Shaw


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NO:1823_73
«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 02:45
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NO:1823_74
«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 02:49
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NO:1823_75
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NO:1823_76
cheri ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 05:05
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

´N¬O¤ä«ù£««ó¨º¥÷·R»OÆW³o¤ù¤g¦aªº¤ß! ¥Lªº¨à¤k¥þ³¡¯d¦b»OÆW¨ü±Ð¨|, ¦b»OÆW¥Í¤p«Ä, ¤£¹³¬Y¨Ç¤H, ¤p«Ä¦b¥~°ê¥Í, °µ¥~°ê¤Hªºªü¤½, ¿ú¤£©ñ¦b»OÆW¶×¨ì¥~°ê, ³oºØ¤H»¡·R»OÆW,°­¤~¬Û«H!

NO:1823_77
GARTH62 ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 06:06
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

NO:1823_68
«n¹Å¥Í ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 00:08


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NO:1823_78
Jim ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 06:11
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

Garth62
You are right!
We dont support him enough.
We dont show our support.
When Abian look at all the media, he find all the medias are again him. It is hard for him.

NO:1823_79
GARTH62 ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 06:32
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

DEAR JIM,
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NO:1823_80
GARTH62 ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 06:36
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

Simon ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/21 23:05
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NO:1823_81
NOBODY ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 08:03
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NO:1823_82
«n¹Å¥Í ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 09:39
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±q§ó²`»·ªº¨¤«×¬Ý¡A³o¤@¦¸¹Aº®¥Á¤W¥x¥_°ò¥»¤W¬O¬FÄÒ¹ï¨M¡A¦³¤ß¤H¾Þ§Ë¡C¦Ó§Ú­Ì­n°µªº¤u§@´N¬O´À·s¬F©²¦³¤OªºÃöÃh¡C¦pªGª©¥DÄ@·Nµo°Êºô¸ôñ¦W¡A¤ä«ù·s¬F©²¡A¤ä«ù³¯Á`²Î¡A¤ä«ù´å°|ªø©M§õ³¡ªø¡A§Ú·Q§Ú­Ì­nñ¦W¤ä«ù¡A±N§Ú­ÌªºÃö¤ß¶Çµ¹ªü«óÁ`²Îª¾¹D¡C

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°ê¿Ë¨âÄÒº´°Ê¸s²³»¡¸gÀÙ¤£¦n¡A³£¬O¥Á¶iÄÒªº¿ù¡A¦ý³¯¤ô«ó¬F©²ÁöµM´¤¦³¦æ¬FÅv¡A¤£¹L­n³q¹L¬I¬F¹wºâªº¥ßªk³¡ªù«o´¤¦b°ê¿Ë¨âÄҤ⤤¡A¬O¥L­ÌÅýªü«ó°µ¨Æ¡A¸j¤â¸j¸}¡C®Q®D§å¡I

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¨â©¤ª½±µ¤T³q¹ï§Ú­Ìªº¸gÀÙ¤@©w¦³³·¤W¥[Á÷ªº®ÄªG¡A¥¢·~²v¤@©w·|¤W¤É¡A¦ý¦b³¥ÄÒ¼®¤O±À°Ê¡A©~¤ß¦ó¦b¡A¥i·Q¦Óª¾¡A¦ý§Ú­Ìªº¿ï¥ÁÁÙ¬O±N¿ï²¼§ëµ¹¦b³¥ÄÒ¡C®Q®D§å¡I

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NO:1823_83
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 10:06
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I


«n¹Å¥Í ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 09:39

I agree with your points. What puzzles me is that all these reactionary forces were heavily relied upon by Dr. Lee Teng Hui. The false accusation of his in September that the A-Bian administration wanted to eliminate the Farmers and Fishermen Association stiffened the back of the reactionary camp. He over played his hands and misjudged the determination of that camp. His recent talk is shameless in that he did not take any responsibility of his own wrong-doings all these years.


NO:1823_84
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 13:00
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¤µ¤ÑµLªk§ï­²¡A¥u¤£¹L¯d¦b­ì¦a¤£°Ê¡A¦pªG¬O³s¾Ô¡B§º·¡·ì·íÁ`²Î¡A§Ú·Q¨º¤£¶È¯d¦b­ì¦a¡A¬Æ¦Ü®³°ê®wªº¿ú­Ë½ß¡C¦U¦ì­n¶Ü¡H
This assertion is incorrect. The bad debts are hemorrhaging many a credit unions. Because the deposits are insured. The insurance is ultimately backed up by the government. The proposed policy, which unfortunately will be terminated, is the first step in stopping the hemorrhaging. There is no ¯d¦b­ì¦a¤£°Ê if there is no reform!

NO:1823_85
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 14:27
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¹ï©ó§åµûªü«óªº¬FÁZºô¤Í¡A§Ú­É³o­Ó¶K¤å¨Ó´À¥LÁ¿¸Ü¡C§Ú»{¬°ªZ¦±¤ÆÅvÁ¿ªº«D±`²M³B©ú¥Õ,¦Ó¥BÅÞ¿è.¦n¤å½Ð¤j®a°Ñ¦Ò!

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NO:1823_86
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/23 15:09
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NO:1823_87
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NO:1823_88
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Your criticism is off the mark! May I ask where are the markets for the factories in Hongkong and China? I know they do not manufacture for their domestic markets! It is ¸Þ²§ only in your closed mind. The situation is a reflection of the international division of labor. You can not blame the government §Ûµu½u¬ü¤Æ¾ãÅé¸gÀټƾÚ. Suppose your criticism is valid, which is highly doubtful, what do you think the long term strategy should be? and what is non-µu½u in your opinion? Dont forget the administration has been only in power for two and half years.


NO:1823_102
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NO:1823_107
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/26 21:26
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NO:1823_104

¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/26 11:12
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Indeed someone should read more carefully what others posted. Fortunately it was not I. I asked which markets the factories in Hongkong and China send their products to. I also said it is not their domestic markets. I did not say a word about import from Hongkong or China. I did mentioned international division of labor as a possible (most likely) reason for the double digit export from Taiwan to those markets! Apparently you missed my question to you about your definition of , as well as the gist of my post. Ha, ha.


NO:1823_108
¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/26 23:10
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NO:1823_109
kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 01:40
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NO:1823_110
©t¸ñ»a¯T ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 01:55
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NO:1823_111
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 05:35
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NO:1823_108

¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/26 23:10
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yl
¬JµM§A®³¹ï¤¤°ê­»´äªº¥X¤f¦¨ªø±j½Õinternational division,¨ºÅãµM§A¬O¥xÆW¦è¶i½×ªº¤ä«ùªÌÅo!¤£¹L¥H¨ä¥L°ê®a§Q¥Î¤¤°ê§@¬°¥@¬É¤u¼tªºÆ[ÂI,®M¦b¥xÆW¨­¤W,§A¯uªºÄ±±o¾A¥Î¶Ü?

It is amazing that you can do this kind of leap frog reasoning. The whole dispute arose from your blaming A-Bian administration <ÁÙ¬O¦Ñ©Û¦¡~~ §Ûµu½u¬ü¤Æ¾ãÅé¸gÀټƾÚ,¦p¦Pªñ¤é¸gÀÙ³¡¤½§G¦~«×¸gÀÙ¦¨ªø²v¦V¤W½Õ¾ã>. What the government published was merely the reflection of the reality. You should know that Taiwan exports semi-finished products to China to assemble and then send to other countries. Stating the facts does not imply one ¬O¥xÆW¦è¶i½×ªº¤ä«ùªÌ. Let me ask you one simple question: that so many manufacturers moved to China under Dr. Lee Teng Huis watch inspite of his publicized policy of Jie Ji Yong Ren (Gai Gip Yong Jim), do you want A-Bian to cut off all exchanges between Taiwan and the factories in China? or do you take the most advantage possible under the circumstances while fashioning a new policy to stem the uprooting of manufacturing ability of Taiwan?
It seems to me that you are not ordinarily dense in impatient in reading other s post, you also rather slow to pick up hints. How many times do I have to say that A-Bians administration is only 2.5 years old? And you are asking to see long term result!


NO:1823_112
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 17:26
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NO:1823_113
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 17:32
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NO:1823_118
soujiya¨ÖÄæ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 21:52
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NO:1895_1

¥xÆW¸ô¤H ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 15:02
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NO:1895_2

magic johnson ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 15:20
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NO:1895_3

ºÖº¸¼¯¨F ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 17:26
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NO:1895_4

Skywalker-Luke ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 17:40
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NO:1895_5

Äõ¶§¿ô·à¹Î ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 20:16
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NO:1895_7

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NO:1895_8

¤º¹õ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 20:32
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NO:1823_119
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/27 22:02
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NO:1823_120
kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 02:31
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¦b¥xÆW¤H¥~±w¥¼°£¤§«e.¹Îµ²¤@­P¹ï¥~.
°O±o¦³¤@¦¸¿ïÁ|.¥Á¶iÄÒ¤º³¡¾xªº¤£¥i¶}¥æ.©ó¬O¦³¤H»¡¥Á¶iÄÒ¤Àµõ¦n¤F.¦ý¬O¥Á¶iÄÒ­±¹ïªxÂÅ­x¾ã·v¥H«Ý.¦A«ç»ò¤£©M¤]¤£·|²Â¨ì¤Àµõ.
§Y¨Ï¤W­z¥|ÂI¬Ò¦¨¥ß«á.¹ï¥xÆW¹ï¥Á¶iÄÒÁÙ¬O¦³«Ü²`ªº´Á³\.¤Z¨Æ²`¿Ñ»·¼{.¤@¨B¤@¸}¤@¦L¥´³y¥xÆW¹Ú¤g.

¤¤°ê¾ú¥v¤WÃö¤½¬°¤°»ò·|¤j·N¥¢¯ð¦{©O?Ãö¤½¥H¬°¤T¤À¤Ñ¤U¤F¥B¼B³Æ¦³¤F®Ú¾Ú¦a.¤Z¨ÆÃ­·í¤F.¤Z¨Æ¦³Ãö¤½§ÚªZ±N¥´¹M¤Ñ¤UµL¼Ä¤â.«K¥i¤£²z·|¤Õ©ú§iÂÇ.¾|²õ¦æ¨Æ.
§Ú·|¤Þ¥H¬°§Ù.
´Nºâ©ú¤Ñ¥xÆW¥¿¦W¤F.¥[¤JÁp¦X°ê¤F.¤¤°ê¤H¥H§¬Û«Ý.............
¹ï©ó¥xÆW³o¥u¬O¶}©l¤£¬O§¹¬üµ²§½.§ÚÁÙ¬O§Ú.¤é·Ó¨ÌµMªF¥X.¦a²y¨ÌµM¦ÛÂà.¤£¥Hª«³ß¤£¥H¤v´d.
¥xÆW¤H¤å.Àô¹Ò.¤g¦a......................­«·s«Øºc§Æ±æ¤uµ{.¦Ê¼o«ÝÁ|.·í®É­º­n¤u§@´N¬O®ø·À¦p«n¹Å¥Í¤§¬yªºµ§´Ò.
°£¤F¤T³q ¥Á¶iÄÒ¦³¤°»ò¤£¦n.­Y´«°µªxÂÅ.¤T³q¥X½æ¥xÆW¤â¬q¥u¬O¨ä¤¤¤§¤@ªº¤p¨à¬ì.

¤¤°ê¤Àµõ¦¨´X¶ô®É.¥xÆW­n¥¿¦W.¤¤°ê¤H¾Ì­þ¤@ÂIªZ¤O¥Ç¥x.®£©È¥Î¼L¤Ú»¡³£¨S¥»¨Æ.»¡¤£¤@©w
¤¤°êªº¨ä¤¤¤@¶ôÁÙ­n´M¨D¥xÆW¦P·ù¥H¦Û«O.¦b¦a½t¬Fªv.³o¤@ÂI.¥xÆW¬O²æÂ÷¤£¤F¤z²Ó.

¤¤°ê¤Àµõ¦¨´X¶ô®É.¨Ì¤¤°ê¤H©Ê®æ¬Ý¥xÆWªxÂŤ§¶¡°«ª§.¤¤°ê¦³¨º¤@¶ôµo§L¥´¥xÆWÁÙ­n¦Ò¼{¦A¤T.½Ö¯à«OÃÒ¥x®ü¥´ªº¤õ¼ö.«á°|³Q¥t¤@¶ôºÙµê¦Ó¤J.

>>4.¤¤°ê¤H¥¼¬I¦æ¥Á¥D«e.³o³üÂI¬O»¡µÛª±ªº ¤¤°ê¤H¦³¨S¦³¥Á¥D¤z­ë©³¨Æªü !


NO:1823_121
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 18:14
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 02:31
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

to:¥q¥[
¡Õ¡Õ¡Õ¡Õ¥xÆW¥[¤£¥[¤JÁp¦X°ê¦³ªø¦Ñ·|¤§Ãþªº°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£¶Ê«PµÛ ¤£¥²§Ú­Ì¾á¤ß ¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö

¥H¤W¤Ó¦n¯º¤F¡I§Ú´N¬O°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£¡D¡ãÁöµM§Ú±q¨Ó¨S¬Ý¨£¹L¡e±Ð¸q¡f¤§ÃþªºªF¦è¡D
¨S¦³¡e¥¿¦W«Ø°ê¡f¡A¨ä¥L¤@¤Á¦A¦n¡A³£¬O«Ø¥ß¦b¨FÅy¤Wªº¡D¡ã³o¬O§Ú¦Û¤vªº»{ª¾¡D


NO:1823_122
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 18:32
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¡Õ¡Õ¡Õ¡Õkiddens »¡¡G
¥xÆW¤H¤å.Àô¹Ò.¤g¦a......................­«·s«Øºc§Æ±æ¤uµ{.¦Ê¼o«ÝÁ|.·í®É­º­n¤u§@´N¬O®ø·À¦p«n¹Å¥Í¤§¬yªºµ§´Ò¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö

¥H¤W¨Ï§ÚÅå³Y¡A¤]³\¦]¬°§Ú¨Ó³o¸Ì¤~¤G­Ó¤ë¡Aª½¨ì¥»Äæ¤~ªì¦¸¬Ý¨£«n¹Å¥Íªº¤å³¹¡A©Ò¥H§ÚÁÙ¤£ª¾¹D¥L¬O¡eµ§´Ò¡f¡D
§Ú­Ë¬O¦b³o¤G­Ó¤ë¤º¬Ý¨£¤T½g¡e¦Ë¤¤¥b§L½Ã¡fªº¶}Äæ¤å³¹¡A°²©w¥L¼gªº¦p¦¹¤º®e¤ä«ù°ê¥ÁÄÒ¡A§Ú·|»{©w¥L¬O°ê¥ÁÄÒ¥I¿ú¸u¥Îªº¡eµ§´Ò¡f¡D§Ú¤£´±·Q¥Á¶iÄÒ¤]·|¾Ç°ê¥ÁÄÒ¸u¥Î¡eµ§´Ò¡f¡A¤]³\¥u¬OÄÒ¤u¦Û°Ê¨Ó¼gªº§a¡H¡H¦Ó¥B¥LÁÙ¦³¡e®É¾÷¡f©Êªº¡A------.


NO:1823_123
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 21:12
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é¡@¦Û¥Ñ®É³øÀYª©¡@¾îªºÀY±ø
¡e¤j¼ÐÃD¡f³¯Á`²Î¡G¹Aº®·|§ï­²¡A¥¢¥h¬FÅv¤]­n°µ
¡e¤p¼ÐÃD¡f«ü¹O©ñ°ÝÃD¦h©ì¤@¦~¡AªÀ·|¦¨¥»´N¼W¥[¢°¢¯¢¯»õ¡A¤£§ï­²§ó·|¥¢¥h¬FÅv¡D

¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é¡@¦Û¥Ñ®É³øÀYª©¡@ª½ªºÀY±ø
¡e¤j¼ÐÃD¡f¤T³q¦M®`°ê¦w¡A¬F©²¹wÀÀ¹ïµ¦


¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é¡A°ê¿Ë¨âÄÒÁÙ¨S¦³´£¥X­nª½¯è¡A¥i¨£¬F©²¹wÀÀ¹ïµ¦¬O¦]¬°¬F©²¦Û¤v¦­´N·Ç³Æª½¯è¡D

¹Aº®´ä§ï­²ªº°ÝÃD¡A¬JµM«óÁ`²Î¦b³ø¯È¤W»¡±o³o»ò«D§ï­²¤£¥i¡A¦Ü¤µ«ó¤]¨Ã¨S¦³»¡¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é¦Û¥Ñ®É³øµn¿ù¤F¡A«ó§ó¨S¦³»¡¥L¦Û¤v·íªì©ÒÁ¿ªº¸Ü¬O¡e¿ù»~¡f¡A¨º»ò¥i¨£·íªì¥LÁ¿ªº¬O¹ïªº¡A¬JµM¬O¹ïªº¡A¨º·íµMÀ³¸Ó¥h°µ¡A¤£°µ´N¬O¿ù¤F¡D

¤Ï¥¿³o¨Æ¨ä¹ê¥u¦³¤GºØ¹ï»P¿ù¡G
²Ä¤@ºØ¬O¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é³ø¯È¤Wªü«ó©ÒÁ¿ªº¸Ü¬OÄY­«¿ù»~ÄF¤Hªº¡A¨º»ò¶¶±q¹Aº®¥Á¨ú®ø§ï­²¬O¹ïªº¡D
²Ä¤GºØ¬O¢¸¤ë¢±¢´¤é³ø¯È¤Wªü«ó©ÒÁ¿ªº¸Ü¬O¹ïªº¡A¨º»ò¶¶±q¹Aº®¥Á¨ú®ø§ï­²´N¬O¤j¿ù¡D


NO:1823_124
kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 23:56
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

ªL¸q¶¯¤£º¡ªü«óÁ`²ÎÄò«Ø®Ö¥|.¤]¨S©ñ±ó¥Á¶iÄÒ.
§f°ÆÁ`²Î¤£¤]¤@ª½½|¥Á¶iÄÒ¶Ü ?¤]¨S©ñ±ó¥Á¶iÄÒ.
«¢«¢«¢.´N§A­Ì³o¨Ç¥b½Õ¤l°Ê¤£°Ê¼L¤Ú»¡µÛ·R¥Á¶iÄҨӤϥÁ¶iÄÒ.
§O»¡¤ä«ù¥Á¶iÄÒ¦h¤[¤F.¥H·R¥xÆW¦Û©~¦Ó¤Ï¥Á¶iÄÒ.
³\«H¨}¬°¥Á¶iÄÒ¥I¥Xªº¤ñ§A§Ú³£­n¦h.¦ý¬O©O ?±ß¸`¤£«O§Î®eµ¹³\«H¨}¬Oµ¹¥L¤@­Ó­±¤l.
¥L®Ú¥»¬O¨Ó¥Á¶iÄҪש³ ±Mªù·d¤jªº.

±q¹Aº®·|§ï­²©¹«e±À.¨ì¤T³q¨ì®Ö¥|.­þ¤@¥ó¨Æ¤£¬OªxÂÅ·d°­.
¨SªxÂŧè°õ¬FÄÒ«á»Lªü«óÁ`²Î¤S¦ó¶·Äò«Ø®Ö¥|.¨â©¤¤T³q©O?¹Aº®·|§ï­²¤S¦ó¦³³\¦hªi§é.
¤µ¤Ñ¤£§äªxÂźâ±b.«÷©R§ä¥Á¶iÄҳ·Ð.³oºâ¤°»ò.

§Úµ´¹ï¤Ï¹ï¤T³q.¦ý¬O­n§_©w¥Á¶iÄÒ.¨º¬O¤£¥i¯àªº.§A»{¬°ªü«ó¯u¥¿¤T³q«áªxÂÅ·|¤ä«ùªü«ó¶Ü ?¤£¥i¯àªº.³o´N¦p¦¿¿A¥Á¤@´[±¡Ä@¹º¦a¦Û­­°eµ¹«X°ê¤H¤g¦a¤@¼Ë·MÄø.¦ý¬O¤µ¤Ñ§Ú­Ì¤£¤ä´©¥Á¶iÄÒ.½Ö¤S¨ÓªÖ©w¥Á¶iÄÒ©O?¨S¦³¥Á¶iÄÒ¨î¿ÅªxÂÅ.¥xÆW­è¦n¦Ï¤Jªê¤f.
¦Û®Ý¥Á¶iÄÒ°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£.§Ú¬Ý©M³\«H¨}¤@¼Ë ¿ð¦­º|¥X°¨¸}¨Ó.«¢ !

¶¶±a¤@´£.ªü«óªºÄÒ¬F¦X¤@.­±¹ïªxÂŦC¹ç¦¡±M¥H°«ª§¬°°õ§Óªº­è©Ê¬FÄÒ(¤£µM°«ª§«ÜÃø³Ó§Q).¤£±o¤£µM.¥Á¶iÄÒÄÒ¬F¦X¤@¬°¼È®É©ÊÅv©y¤§­p.
µ¥¥xÆW§¹¥þ¥¿¦W¦Û¥D¤§«á.ÄÒ¬F¦X¤@¤]¬O¦Ê¼o«ÝÁ|§ï­²¦æ°Ê¨ä¤¤¤§¤@.
§Ú³o­Ó¥­¤Z¤H³£À´ªº³o­Ó¹D²z.§A­ÌÁÙ­n¶}Äæ°Q½×¦h¤Ö.¦h¤[.

¦pªG¯u¬O¥Á¶iÄÒ¤ä«ùªÌ.ÁA¸Ñ¨ä¤¤ªº¤º»E¤O.¤£·|¹³§A­Ì°Ê»³±o©S.³ÛµÛ©ñ±óªº.

¥xÆW°Ñ¥[¬ü°êªº¥xÆW«Ø¦{¹B°Ê.®É¶¡¤£¯¸¦b§A­Ì³oÃä¤F.¦]¬°¬I©ú¼w·í¥xÆWÁ`²Î.¬ü°ê³Ì¦³¥i¯àÅý¥xÆW¦¨¬°¬ü°ê¤@¦{.
¬I©ú¼w¯d¬ü´NŪ­x®Õ³Q¬ü°ê±¡³ø³æ¦ì§l¦¬.´N¦p°¨­^¤[¾·~¾Ç¥Í¤@¼Ë¬O¤½¶}±K¯µ.
¬ü°ê¤H±R«ô­^¶¯.¬I©ú¼w­Y¤£Àu¨q¬ü°ê¤H¤£¥i¯à§l¦¬.³o¤]¬O¬ü°ê¼s¯Ç¥þ¥@¬É¤H§÷¦Ó±j²±¤£°Iªº¹D²z.
¬I©ú¼w¦b¥xÆW­x¨ÆºÊº»¸Ì·Q¦º¦Ó¦º¤£¤F(°ê¥ÁÄÒ¤£´±Åý¥L¦º).¬ü°ê­I«áºÙ¸y.
¤S©¿µM¦³­Ó¬ü°ê¤k¤HÄ@·N¶ùµ¹¬I©ú¼w.¬I©ú¼w¦¨¬°¬ü°ê¤½¥Á.(·d¦º¤@­Ó¬ü°ê¤½¥Á«D¦P¤p¥i.¬ü¬F©²¥i¬O·|¿³®v°Ý¸o)¬I©ú¼w¤S¦º¤£¤F.(¬ü°ê¤H¨¾°ê¥ÁÄÒ¨Ó­Ó·N¥~·F±¼¬I©ú¼w¦pªL¸q¶¯¦å®×.³¯¤å¦¨©R®×¤§Ãþ)

¤µ¤Ñ¥xÆWÁÙ¦³½Ö¤ñ¬I©ú¼w¦b¬ü°ê¬F©²¤ß¥Ø¤¤§ó¦³¥÷¶q.¥H«eÁÙ¬O±i¾Ç¨}.®]¥ß¤Hªº¬y¬ü¬£.¦ý¬O³£µ¹½±¤¶¥Û·F±¼(°£§LÅv)...................§A­Ì»¡©O ?


NO:1823_125
«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/29 00:44
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

kiddens¥S

¥¿¬O¦¹·N¡I¡ã¥¿¬O¦¹·N¡I¡ã¤ô°Õ¡I^+++++^¡i¤Ï¥¿®É®É¤£§Ñ¶¶¤â¨ëªü«ó¤@¤M´N¯À¤F°Õ¡I¡j


NO:1823_126
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/29 01:04
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

kiddens¥S¡A

§Ú¤]§¹¥þ¦P·N!¨º¨Ç§åµû¤@¨Ç¥Á¶iÄÒµy¤£§¹¬üªº¬Fµ¦¡A´N­n§O¤H¤£­n¾ÖÅ@¥Á¶iÄÒªº¤H¡Aªº½T¬O§O¦³¥Î¤ß¡C·R¤§²`¤~³d¤§¤Á¡A«ç»ò³d¤@¤U´N¤£·R¤F©O?³oÁÙ¥s¡u·R¡v£«????¤£­nÄF¤H¤F!!!


NO:1823_127
kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/29 01:26
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¤£¥²¬°«n¹Å¥ÍÅG»é¤F .·U´y¥u·|·U¶Â.
«¢ «¢ «¢ !
to:¥xÀs .«í·R¥x .Á¤F!
¦b¥Á¶iÄÒ¤º¤S¤£¬O¨S¨£¹L°ê¥ÁÄÒªº¯S¤u.¥H«e¥Á¶iÄÒ¤º±q¤W¨ì¤U³£¦³.
°eµ¹¤j®a¤@¥y¸Ü.¡i¤é¤[¨£¤H¤ß¡j.
°eµ¹¥x¤ä²Î¬£¤§¬yªÌ.¥xÆW¥¿¦W¤§¸ô¡i¸ô»»ª¾°¨¤O¡j¤j®a¨«µÛÁ@!

NO:1823_128
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/29 02:29
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

NO:1823_124

kiddens ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/28 23:56
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

It is arrant nonsense! Get your facts straight before you post.


NO:1823_129
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2002/11/29 03:08
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

yl¡A

¹ï¤@­Ó²z©Àªº°í«ù¨º»Ý­nÔ£ÃÒ¾Ú¡C¤HªºÂ÷¶}¨Ã¤£¥Nªí­IÂ÷¡C²z©Àªº¹ê¦æ¬O¥i¥H§åµûªº¡A¦ý¬O¦pªG¶}©l§_©w¨º­Ó²z©À¡A¨º´N¤£¬O²z©Àªº¤ä«ùªÌ¤F¡A¤£¬O¶Ü?


NO:1823_130
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/02 19:54
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

¡Õ¡Õ¡Õ¡Õ¦Û®Ý¥Á¶iÄÒ°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£.§Ú¬Ý©M³\«H¨}¤@¼Ë ¿ð¦­º|¥X°¨¸}¨Ó.«¢ !¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö¡Ö

¥H¤W¬O«D±`¥i¯º¤S¥i®¢ªº©¹(¥Á¶iÄÒ)¦Û¤vÁy¤W¶Kª÷ªº»¡ªk.

§Ú¨S¦³,¤]¤£¥i¯à¦ÛºÙ¬O[¥Á¶iÄÒ°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£].
§Ú¦b¼Ó¤W¦ÛºÙ¬O[°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£],¨S¦³¦ÛºÙ¬O[¥Á¶iÄÒ°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£].

¤j®aª¾¹Dªº,¾ã­Ó«Ø°êÄÒ³£¬O°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£.
§Ú¦b¤@­Ó¦h¤ë«e(10¤ë30¤é)´N¦b¤@½g¶}Äæ¤å¤¤»¡,§Ú´¿¸g¬O«Ø°êÄÒÄÒ­û,¨º½g¤å³¹¦b³o¸Ì¤½¶}¤F¤­¤Ñ¤§«á,³Q®³±¼¤F,¦ý¦b¤­¤Ñ¤§¤º,¤]¦³´X¦Ê­Ó¤H¬Ý¹L¤F,§Ú¬Û«H³o¸Ì¤j¦h¼Æ¤H³£¬Ý¹L¨º½g¤å³¹¦Óª¾¹D§Ú´¿¸g¬O«Ø°êÄÒÄÒ­û,¥u¦]ªü«ó·í¿ïÁ`²Î¨Ï§Ú¤@®É»~¥H¬°¥xÆW¤w¸gÅܦ¨§Ú­Ì¥xÆW¤H¦Û¤vªº°ê®a¤F,©Ò¥H¤~·|¦b¦~2000¦~3¤ë31¤é°hÄÒ,¦ýÄÒÃÒÁÙ¦b§Ú³o¸Ì.¡ã§Ú¤ßªø¦b«Ø°êÄÒ.

§Ú®Ú¥»¤£»{¬°¥Á¶iÄҸ̭±ÁÙ¦³°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£¡D¤j®a³£ª¾¹Dªº,¦b«Ø°êÄÒ³ÐÄÒªº®É­Ô,¥Á¶iÄҸ̭±ªº°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£³£¥X¨«¨ì«Ø°êÄÒ¤F,©Ò¥H¥Á¶iÄҸ̭±¦­´N¨S¦³°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£¤F.

¥Á¶iÄÒ¬O¾ÖÅ@[¤¤µØ¥Á°ê]¨«[·s¤¤¶¡¸ô½u]ªº¬FÄÒ,¥Á¶iÄÒ¦­´N©M°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£¤À¤â¤F.

§Ú®Ú¥»¤£¤ä«ù¥ô¦ó¾ÖÅ@¡e¤¤µØ¥Á°ê¡fªº¬FÄÒ.
§Ú[³Ìªñ¤@¦¸]§ë²¼¬O§ëµ¹¥xÁpªº,¦]¬°«Ø°êÄÒ¤w¸g¨S¦³°Ñ¥[Äv¿ï¤F,¦Ó¥xÁp¤]¬O°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£.

§A§á¦±§Ú»¡ªº¸Ü¡A¦ý¤Ï¥¿§Ú¥´¥X¨Óªº¦rÁÙ¦b¼Ó¤W.¤j®a¥i¥H¥h¬Ý¤@¬Ý¡AÃÒ©ú§A¸C²´»¡½M¸Ü,§A¤Ó¥i®¢¤F!!

¡¯¡¯¡¯§â§Ú§á¦±¦¨¥Á¶iÄÒ-----,¹ï§Ú¬O«Ü¤jªº«V°d,À³¸Ó¦V§Ú¹Dºp.


NO:1823_131
yl ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/02 21:45
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

NO:1823_130

¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/02 19:54

§Ú[³Ìªñ¤@¦¸]§ë²¼¬O§ëµ¹¥xÁpªº,¦]¬°«Ø°êÄÒ¤w¸g¨S¦³°Ñ¥[Äv¿ï¤F,¦Ó¥xÁp¤]¬O°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£.

It is clear that you do not have much political wisdom! You do not know a thread of the histories of those ¥xÁp members for you to say ¥xÁp¤]¬O°ò¥»±Ð¸q¬£. I can only conclude that you have a very different concept of fundamentalist! Although I am not a member of «Ø°êÄÒ, I am happy for them that you are no longer a member of «Ø°êÄÒ. You are very confused indeed!


NO:1823_132
¥q¥[ ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/03 14:55
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

kiddens À³¸Ó¦V§Ú¹Dºp.

¤£­n¥H¬°¥þ°ê¤H¥Á³£¬O¡ã­Y¤£¤ä«ù°ê¿Ë¨âÄÒ,´N¤@©w¬O¤ä«ù¥Á¶iÄÒ.¡@
¤£­n¥H¬°¥þ°ê¤H¥Á³£¬O¡ã­Y¤£¤ä«ù¥Á¶iÄÒ,´N¤@©w¬O¤ä«ù°ê¿Ë¨âÄÒ.

¤£­n¥H¬°¨C¤@­Ó¤H³£·|[¦è¥Ê¾a¤jÃä],§Ú¤£¬O³oºØ¶Õ§Q²´ªº¤H,§Ú¥u¤ä«ù©M§Ú²z©À¬Û¦Pªº[¬FÄҩέӤH] ,¤£­p¦¨±Ñ.


NO:1823_133
ªüÞ³ ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/03 15:03
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

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§A¬O«Ø°êÄÒ?
§A±Ò¤£¬O¸ò¦ÛºÙ¥Á¶iÄÒ¥Bªø¬Û¦³ÂI¦@­ê
Á¿¤@¤f¬y§Q¥_¨Ê¸Üªº¦ÛºÙ§Ú¬O¥Á¶iÄÒ­û
µM«á®³¤j¦r³ø¥´§õ¥Á¾Ë¨º¦ì¦@­ê¨à¤@¼Ë¶Ü

NO:1823_134
¤Eµ¥¥Í ¡@©ó¡@2002/12/03 18:03
Re:³¯Á`²Î¡A§A¤ÓÅý¤ä«ùªÌ¥¢±æ¤F¡I

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RE¡G§A¦b½s¸¹ NO:1823_130 ªº¶K¤å¤º®e

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NO:1823_139
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NO:1823_141
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