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Taiwanbear ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/01 09:19 | |
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Type 59 ---> No usage for invaing Taiwan! either destroyed in the middle of transporting or, We Taiwan, already lose the war, which is unlikely! ---> VS Russia??? USA??? German??? no bloody way as well ---> Conclusion! Another MIC bullshit!!! |
PLD ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/01 17:03 | |
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To:ryan2181 ¡@ >¤¤¶VÃä¹Ò¾Ô¨Æ«á,¸Ñ©ñx·P¨ü¨ì«eĬÁp¤j¾÷±ñ§L¹Î³¯§L¥_¹Òªº¨I«À£¤O, ..... > °ò¥»¬O没¿ù,¤£¹L¬O60¦~¥N¥½¬ÃÄ_®q¨Æ¥ó«á,·í®É69¤õ½bµ©(RPG-7)µLªk¥´¬ïT62 >120MM·Æ¥¼¦¹¥Øªº¦Ó¶}µo >¦¨ªG¹F¦¨»Ý¨D¥i«g¨î«eĬÁp¾Ô¨®,¤£¹L¦³«á§¤¤O¹L¤j¤Î«á®y¦æµ{¹Lªø¤§¯ÊÂI. >¦ý¦]·í®É¤´¦³¥_¤è¢¤ÁªºÀ£¤O¦s¦b,¦]¦¹¶}µo¥XÅX³v¾Ô¨®....¥ý³»µÛ >©Ò¥H¦³Åý¥þ²yÆ[¹î®a¶^¯}²´Ã誺(SORRY.¦b¤U§Ñ°O«¬¸¹¤F)¤Ï¾Ô¨®¦Û¨«¯¥ >³oºâ¬O¹L«×²£ª«,²£¶q¤£°ª¦P®É¤]¥þ±°tÄÝ©ó±¹ï«eĬÁp«e½tx°Ï. 120·Æ¥»¬O§@爲3¥N¾Ô¨®¯¥¬ã»sªº,¦Ó³Ì«á¥D¾Ô¨®¿ï¾Ü¤F125mmªºì¦]¥Dn¬O ¦Û°Ê¸Ë¼u¾÷ BWS 69©ó1978¦~¤~¤j¶q¥Í²£,³o«¬¾Ô¨®ªº³ø¾É¤Î¬ÛÃö§ï¨}³Ì¤Ö,¤]¬O80¦~¥Nªº¥D¤O |
chin ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 17:08 | |
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BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 17:12 | |
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ryan2181 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 17:22 | |
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lazycat.com ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 17:32 | |
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to:chin --->¾Ô®É¤j¶q¥Í²£ªº¨¾¿m©ÊªZ¾¹¡A¥H¼Æ¶q»P¤õ¤O©è¾PMBT»P¥_·¥ºµ¾Ô¨®ªº½è¶q®t²§¡A ¯¥¶ð¥Í²£±Ë±óºD¥ÎªºÅ±³y§Þ³N§ï¥Î²k±µ 89³]p«ä·QÅܹL¦h¦¸,³Ì²×½T©wªº¬O°tÄݬ¶§Lªº¤ä´©ªZ¾¹ ¬¶¶ð¥Î²k±µªºì¦]«Ü²³æ,´î«,«OÃÒ¤@©wªº¨¾¿m¤O,·íµM¤]¥i°§C¦¨¥» |
ryan2181 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 21:25 | |
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chin ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 22:06 | |
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»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷.....ÁÙ¬O¥s¶i¼u¾÷¡H ¤§«e¦n¹³¦b152mm¡B155mm¡B203mmµ¥¤j¤f®|ºh¼u¬¶¤W¬Ý¹L¡A¨S·Q¨ì¾Ô¨®¬¶¤W¤]¸Ë³oÓ¡I¡I¡I 89³]p«ä·Q¦n¹³¤£¥u·í§@ÅX³v¾Ô¨®¡A¤S°¾¦V¾Ö¦³¤@¯ëªº¦Û¨«¬¶ªº¥\¯à¡A °£¤F¥D¬¶¥H¥~¡A89¦¡ªº¨ä¥L°t³Æ³£´X¥G»P¤@¯ëªº¦Û¨«¬¶¬Û¦P... ·Æ½£¬¶¾A¦X·í¤@¯ëºh¬¶¨Ï¥Î¡H |
ªê§À¤H ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/16 23:44 | |
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Thanks! ¤pº§À: The claim ¬On¯àºë½T´ú¥X¨®½ø¦Û¨ªºª¬ºAÅÜ¤Æ using Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is either to mislead readers or the author misunderstand the key issue of how to ºë½T´ú¥X¨®½ø¦Û¨ªºª¬ºAÅܤÆ. The resolution and sampling rate of Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is not a problem for current tech. They should use some other devices rather than Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ which can only sense the relative position. On the other hand, to sense relative position Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is not the only option even if you required certain level of robustness. |
BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 00:38 | |
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¤pªô ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 09:38 | |
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>·Æ½£¬¶¾A¦X·í¤@¯ëºh¬¶¨Ï¥Î¡H >®gÀ»»·µ{¥Ø¼Ð·|¤£·|·Ç½T«×¤Ó®t¡H ¤£¤£...89¦¡ÅX³v¾Ô¨®¨Ã«D·í¦Û¨«¬¶¨Ï¥Î ¨º¬O¤@ºØ¤ä´©ªZ¾¹ °t¸p¯¥§L¤£¨£±o¤@©w¬O§@¦±®gªº¨Æ ¤Ï©Z§J¤]¦b¯¥§L·~°È½d³ò¤º(ÁöµM²{¦b³£¥Î¸Ë¥Ò¤Ï¸Ë¥Ò¸û¦h) >¥D¯¥¬°120MM,¯¥ºÞªø6¤½¤Ø >«¶q2600¤½¤ç,¤õ¯¥¦w¸Ë¦³©â®ð¸Ë¸m¤Î¹j¼ö®Mµ©~ >³Ì¤jªì³t1660m/s(¼uÃÄ28µo) ªGµM©Ê¯à¸òL44®t¤£¦h.... ¦ý¬O¬JµM¬On®³¨Ó·í¦¨§C¦¨¥»ªº¤Ï¾Ô¨®ªZ¾¹(¤£ºÞ¬O89¦¡ÁÙ¬O59¦¡§ï) À³¸Ó³Ì°_½X¥H«án¦³CN-120-6(¹p§J°Ç120mm/52¿®|ªº½s¸¹ ¤£ª¾¦³¨S°O¿ù)¤ô·Ç ³o¬O¥H«á¸Ó¦Ò¼{´«¸Ëªº >¥H¦â¦CªºL7A3~105¤½Íù¾Ô¨®¯¥ ?BWS¤jô ³o¬O^°êªº§a L7A3À³¸Ó¬O^°ê¬Ó®a§L¤u¼tªº²£«~ ¦Ó¥B·íªìªº½T¤¤¦@¦³¨ú±o^°êL7§Þ³N... >¥B¸g¹L§ï¶iªº125mm«Â¤O¤j¤j´£¤É,¨Ã«D2A46M¨ººØÄê³f ¥»¤Hn´À¦Ñ«X»¡¥y¸Ü(²Ä¤@¦¸·F³oºØ¨Æ) 2A46/2A46M1/2A46M2¨Ã«DÄê³f(°ê»Ú¨î¦¡½s¸¹D-81T/D-81TM-1/D-81TM-2) ¦³®ÉÔ....¼uÃĺØÃþ¤~¬O°ÝÃD ¦pªG¨ÌªiÆW¾Ôª§¨Ó¬Ý °ÝÃD¬O¥X¦b¥ì©Ô§J¼uºØ ¥L̨ϥΫ¬ªºAPFSDS ªø®|¤ñ¦n¹³¬O1:8...¬ï¥Ò¤O·¥®t ¨Ì²{¦b«Xù´µªº3BM32 DU ¸¹ºÙ2000m³e¬ï680mmRHA(KE)<--(¥»¤H·¥«×ÃhºÃ¦¹¼Æ¾Ú ¦]¬°³o¼Ë´N³sM1A2 SEPªº¥¿±³£¤£¯à«OÃÒ³QÀ»¤¤«áƦs) ¥H¤Î3VBM17 1000m³e¬ï250mm/60«× 2000m³e¬ï230mm/60«×ªº§¡½è¿ûªO ³o¨Ç¥i¤£®e©¿µø |
chin ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 11:21 | |
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§Ú쥻¤@ª½¥H¬°89¦¡¬O±M¾ªºÅX³v¾Ô¨®¡A ¦ý«oµLªk²z¸Ñ¾Ô¨®¬¶¸Ë¡u»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷¡v¦³¤°»ò·N¸q¡H ¼W¥[¦¨¥»¡A¼W¥[¬G»Ù²v¡A¹ï©ó®g³tªº´£°ª... ¤S¤£»Ýn¦p¦Pºh¬¶n¨Dµu®É¶¡¤º§ë®g¤j¶q¤õ¤O¡AÂy±þ©Z§JÁÙ¬O»Ýn®g¤âªá®É¶¡¤@¤@°lºË ©Ò¥H²q·Q¬O§_¬O¦]¬°¥Ñ¯¥§L¨Ï¥Î¡A©Ò¥H§Æ±æ±q³æ¤@¥Î³~§ïÅܦ¨¦h¥Î³~¡A |
BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 11:28 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
89ªººË·Ç¨t²Î¨S¨º»ò¦n ©Ò¥H·|¥H§Ö³tªº§ë®g¤õ¤OÀ±¸É·Ç½T«×ªº¤£¨¬ §O¤p¬Ý»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷,§A§â¼uÃÄ©ñ¦bÉì¬[¤W,¼uÃÄÁÙ¨S§¹¥þ¶i½£ §A´N¥i¥H¦b®³¥t¤@Áû¼uÃĨӳƵo~ ¦Ó¥Bºc³y²³æ |
ryan2181 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 11:32 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
>>¾Ô¨®¬¶¸Ë¡u»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷¡v¦³¤°»ò·N¸q¡H ±À´ú¥i¯àì¦]: 120MM¯¥¼u¬°¹F¦¨³]pn¨D«Â¤O ¼W¥[¸ËÃĶq.....¾ãÅé«¶q¹L« |
¤pº§À ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 11:52 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
>The claim ¬On¯àºë½T´ú¥X¨®½ø¦Û¨ªºª¬ºAÅÜ¤Æ using Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is either to mislead readers or the author misunderstand the key issue of how to ºë½T´ú¥X¨®½ø¦Û¨ªºª¬ºAÅܤÆ. The resolution and sampling rate of Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is not a problem for current tech. They should use some other devices rather than Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ which can only sense the relative position. On the other hand, to sense relative position Transducer/¶Ç·P¾¹ is not the only option even if you required certain level of robustness. I agree with your comment. Fast response is not very critical. Therefore, the regular A/D,DAQ board, realtime controller will serve a good work. Even I estimate the cost may be less 1500 USD. However, the critical requirment for such system is not what this R-73 dipicted. In conclusion, the electronic must be tough. |
BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 12:26 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
³o´N¬O³Ì²³æªº»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷ºc«¬ http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/m109/m109-23.gif |
¤pªô ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 14:35 | |
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®ÇÆ[ªÌ2 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 16:27 | |
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ra ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 17:39 | |
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¤pº§À ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 20:10 | |
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ryan2181 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 21:58 | |
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>§O¤p¬Ý»²§U¸Ë¼u¾÷,§A§â¼uÃÄ©ñ¦bÉì¬[¤W,¼uÃÄÁÙ¨S§¹¥þ¶i½£ >§A´N¥i¥H¦b®³¥t¤@Áû¼uÃĨӳƵo~ >¦Ó¥Bºc³y²³æ ¦Ñ¥Hªº¹£¨®-3 ¤W¤]¦³³oªF¦è |
SK2 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 22:01 | |
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ra ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/17 22:01 | |
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lazycat.com ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 11:57 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
To BWS ¤âÀY¾ã²z59©Ò¦³§ï¨}«¬¦p¤U >59-1 ©ó1979¦~±À¥X,ªu¥Î100¤½Íù±Û½£¯¥,¦ý¬O¨Ï¥Î§ï¨}¹Lªº¼uÃÄ ¨®°¼¥[¸Ë°¼¸È,¦Û°Ê·À¤õ¾¹ 59-2 ©ó1980¦~¥Nªì´Á±À¥X,®g±±»P59-1¬Û¦P,¦ý¬O´«¸Ë¥é»s¥H¦â¦CªºL7A3~105¤½Íù¾Ô¨®¯¥ ¸Ñ©ñxºÙ¤§¬°81¦¡¾Ô¨®¯¥ 59-2A ©ó1985¦~±À¥X,¥Dn§ï¨}«ÂI¬O¦b¥D¯¥¯¥¨¥[¸Ë¹j¼ö®Mµ©,¥B©ó¨®¤W¥[¸Ëªþ¦X¸Ë¥Ò¶ô ±µ¤U¨Ó´N¬O59-120MM ´N¬O§ÚÌ¥»°Q½×´£ªº¥D¨¤ ©ó1998¦~µo²{~~¥D¯¥¬°120MM,¯¥ºÞªø6¤½¤Ø «¶q2600¤½¤ç,¤õ¯¥¦w¸Ë¦³©â®ð¸Ë¸m¤Î¹j¼ö®Mµ©~ >³Ì¤jªì³t1660m/s(¼uÃÄ28µo) «D¤] 59-1,59-2,µ¥59D«eªº¦U§ï«¬³£¬O¥Î100mm¯¥ªº,³oÂI¥i¥HªÖ©w |
lazycat.com ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 12:00 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
BTW.What is KUSO ÁöµM¤§«e»¡¹L,¤£¹Ln½¨ì¯uªº«ÜÃø.. |
ryan2181 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 12:01 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
KUSO : ¶Ã·d/·o¶Ã¤] |
chin ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 16:40 | |
Re:¤¤°ê¢´¢¸¦¡©Z§J´«¸Ë¢°¢±¢¯²@¦Ì©Z§J¬¶«áªº©Ê¯à¡i¸ô§J´_ì¡j | |
KUSO : ½Ķ¦¨¡u´c·d/·d¯º¡v¤ñ¸û¶K¤Á |
BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 21:43 | |
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³oÂI¸ê®Æ¨Ó¦Û¤Ú°ò´µ©Z©x¤èºô¯¸ ¤p§Ì»{¬°³o¬O³Ì¥¿½Tªº¸ê®Æ Variants : Type 59-I MBT Factory No 617 carried out a number of improvements to the Type 59 MBT which resulted in the Type 59-I. This featured hydraulic booster technology to improve the opening and closing mechanisms for the safety door cover and cupola door cover, installation of a simplified fire-control system, laser rangefinder, engine low-pressure alarm and automatic fire extinguisher. Type 59-II MBT Further development resulted in the Type 59-II which has the 105 mm rifled tank gun that can fire AFPSDS, APDS, HEAT and HESH ammunition, two-axis stabilisation system for the main armament, light spot fire-control system, automatic fire extinguishing and explosion suppression system, 580 hp diesel engine, new radios and communications system. The 105 mm rifled tank gun is similar to the Western L7 (UK)/M68 (US) and is fitted with a fume extractor and thermal sleeve. This has been referred to by US forces as the Model 1984 as this was the first year that it was identified. The Chinese 105 mm rifled tank gun fires Chinese-developed ammunition and this gun is also installed in a number of other Chinese MBTs including the Type 79 (qv), Type 80 (qv) and Type 85 (qv). NORINCO Type 59 Retrofit Package TEXT : NORINCO is offering an upgrade package for the Type 59 MBT. The original 520 hp diesel will be replaced by a new 730 hp diesel to give a much higher power-to-weight ratio and therefore greater acceleration on the battlefield. Other improvements include APFSDS-T ammunition for the 100 mm gun, rubber-bushed tracks, NBC system, friction shock-absorbers, gun stabilisation in both elevation and traverse and a new fire-control system incorporating spot injection in the gunners sight. Type 59 with 105 mm L7 gun As a private venture Royal Ordnance of the United Kingdom has fitted a Type 59 MBT with the 105 mm L7A3 rifled tank gun. This, together with three other upgraded Type 59s, was tested in Pakistan in 1987. NORINCO 120 mm T-54/Type 59 Upgrade China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) has developed an upgrade package for the widely deployed Chinese Type 59 and Russian T-54/T-55 MBT that includes the replacement of the current 100 mm rifled tank gun by a 120 mm smoothbore gun. The exact origin of the Chinese 120 mm smoothbore is not known as in the past, with the exception of the Western 105 mm rifled tank gun, all Chinese tank guns have been of eastern design. These are the 100 mm rifled tank gun and more recent 125 mm smoothbore gun which is fed by an automatic loader. The latter is fitted to the Type 90, Type 85-IIM and Type 85-III MBTs and has enabled the crew to be reduced to three, commander, gunner and driver. Some years ago China did develop and place in production the 120 mm self-propelled anti-tank gun Type 89 (details of which are given in the Tank Destroyers section) which has a similar 120 mm smoothbore gun and the 120 mm weapon for the Type 59 upgrade is probably identical. The 120 mm smoothbore gun is 6 m long and weighs 2,600 kg complete with breech mechanism. It is fitted with a fume extractor and thermal sleeve but has no muzzle reference system. To give an increase in barrel life the interior is chrome plated. As well as firing Western natures of armour piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS) ammunition, such as the German Rheinmetall DM23 and DM33, and HEAT multipurpose, it can also fire 120 mm ammunition developed by NORINCO. Like the Western 120 mm smoothbore ammunition, this has a semi-combustible cartridge case and all that remains after firing is the stub cartridge case. The penetrator has a respectable length-to-diameter ratio of 25.2/1 and complete with saddle weighs 7.33 kg. When in flight the penetrator weighs 4.1 kg. The NORINCO APFSDS round has a muzzle velocity of 1,660 m/s and is claimed to have a similar armour penetration performance to NATO natures of ammunition, for example around 550 mm of rolled homogenous armour (RHA) at a range of 1,500 m. Turret traverse is 360?with weapon elevation from -5 to +18? A total of 28 rounds of 120 mm ammunition are carried compared to 34 rounds of 100 mm. To improve first round hit probability a simplified fire-control system has been fitted which includes a laser rangefinder. This enables the upgraded tank to engage moving targets when it is stationary, quoted engagement times are around seven seconds for a stationary target and 10 seconds for a moving target. Range, target horizontal angular speed and tilt angle of the 120 mm gun is inputted automatically while charge temperature, ambient air temperature, muzzle velocity and crosswind are entered manually as required. While the weapon is normally laid onto the target by the gunner, if required the commander can also take over, aim and fire. Various types of night vision equipment can be fitted as required by the user. The secondary armament remains the same and consists of a roof-mounted 12.7 mm machine gun, 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun and a 7.62 mm machine gun which is fixed in the glacis plate and operated by the driver. SPECIFICATIONS : Crew: 4
Production complete. In service with: Country Quantity Comment |
SK2 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 23:15 | |
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BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 23:28 | |
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SK2 ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 23:31 | |
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BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/18 23:47 | |
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BWS ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/19 01:54 | |
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unnamed ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/19 02:50 | |
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BWS: slew rate would be a major problem for that system. |
lazycat.com ¡@©ó¡@2002/07/19 11:21 | |
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dsp ¡@©ó¡@2002/10/21 01:07 | |
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You can read the lastest businessweek and see how US view mainlank tech capacity. |
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