rebuttal to chinese`s ultimate argument

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wlin5  於 2002/07/25 22:06
rebuttal to chinese`s ultimate argument

We taiwanese`s ultimate argument is: can we choose our own government based on what we want, not the government you chinese IMPOSED to us over 50 years?

Taiwans sovereignty belongs to people who live in Taiwan, love taiwan, not the people who lives and colonize taiwan(you chinese).
You chinese have no right to say taiwan`s sovereignty belongs to nobody.
It doesnt mean you chinese IMPOSE an colonial government to us, so you chinese have Taiwan`s sovereignty. Got it?

Unilaterally claim taiwan belongs to NOBODY, and colonize taiwan residents without Taiwanese permission, directly violate the Atlantic Charter article 1,2, 3, which is the ultimate universal principles (compared with your so called 實話終極版, quite sarcastic).

You chinese article`s strongest point is quoted below. Unfortunately, you chinese had signed in UN declaration, and said you chinese fully support the Atlantic charters principles. Therefore, you chinese`s ultimate article intends to destroy taiwan independence, violate you chineses promise in supporting the Atlantic Charter. Im afraid this articles whole arguments had been totally destroyed by youself, chinese.

(quote)
同時呢,國際法中還規定:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。好了,請聰明的同學回答一下,台灣已經被中華民國政府有效統治了多少年了^^?而民國無論是憲法還是版圖都仍然未變包括台灣大陸為整體的構架和放棄作為競爭中國中央政府的身份。
(quote finished)

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(Ultimate rebuttal quoted)
---their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other;

(compared with you chinese: 當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)

---respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live (you chinese said effective colonizing taiwan 50 years without taiwanese`s permission can let you say taiwan belong to taiwan??? Do you respect our rights to choose our government??)

(compared with you chinese:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)

---wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them (ie: you chinese deprive taiwanese`s right to choose government, and you chinese said we have no right to choose our own government simply because you ahd already EFFECTLY COLONIZED Taiwan 50 years???? Do you respect our right to choose our government based on what we want, and restore our sovereign rights to us???)

(compared with you chinese:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)
(quote finished)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(引用: The Atlantic Charter, critical portion only)

First, their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other;

(請問台灣何時是你china的? 你片面宣稱台灣屬於你, 是不是 seek territorial aggrandisement? 中華民國殖民台灣五十年, 你國家不思改進, 反而威脅台灣不能正名為台灣國, 並說因為殖民五十年了, 所以即使任何法理上通通不合法, 根據先佔原則, 你們也硬要說台灣是你們的. 這是不是 seek territorial aggrandizement?)

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;

(這點非常關鍵. 你們片面宣稱台灣是你們的, 並且先入為主的使用統一這個字眼, 請問台灣人反對, 你們有聽進去一絲一毫嗎?)

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;

(這點更重要. 關鍵字是 forcibly deprived of them. 台灣人被你中華民國大量屠殺, 專制獨裁, 高壓統治, 洗腦. 請問你們有 respect the right of formosan to choose the form of government under which they will live 嗎? 還是你們強迫台灣接受篡改的歷史, 強迫台灣接受一中, 好名正言順的併吞台灣? 請問你們有 wish to see sovereign rights and self government resotred to formosan 嗎? 還是你們希望完全剝奪台灣獨立建國, 追求自己的主權呢?)

(quote finished)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NO:578_1
台獨份子  於 2002/07/25 23:33
Re:rebuttal to chinese`s ultimate argument

這位網友,你搬出大西洋憲章或其他什麼舊金山和約、開羅宣言的都不重要,不過至少證明你很用功啦!!
我再強調一次,台灣會變成中國的一部份主要是1945年,台灣人歡迎蔣政權來接收統治,這己構成了像贈與一般的法律效力,而現在台灣仍是在中華民國的統治,不主張獨立,於法理上來說,中國有權干涉。

NO:578_2
台獨份子  於 2002/07/25 23:36
Re:rebuttal to chinese`s ultimate argument

是57年前,由林獻堂等人的「三民主義青年團」為主要代表,親手將自己的土地主權送給中國政府,要擺脫一切,只有宣布獨立

NO:578_3
wlin5  於 2002/08/03 08:46
Re:rebuttal to chinese`s ultimate argument

之前我記得我有將水晶蒼蠅拍那一篇最關鍵的那一段寫了個 rebuttal.
台獨份子有回覆. 在回覆時, 才發現那篇文章被刪了,
所以只好另開個欄留言.

水晶蒼蠅拍那篇文章最關鍵的部份就是說根據國際法慣例, 一個國家佔據無主地五十年,
那個國家就合法的擁有那塊土地. 那個作者說到這個地方, 就開始調侃起台灣人如果有種
就發起獨立戰爭, 意思就是因為台灣人不發起獨立戰爭而瞧不起台灣人.

現在二十一世紀, 在這種核子武器時代, 無論那一國發起戰爭, 都會造成整個地球的毀滅.
大西洋憲章的目的, 就是要在不引起世界毀滅之戰的情形下, 根據住民自決原則,
optimize 人類追求自由幸福和人權. 這個憲章之所以被認同, 就是因為戰爭所帶來的苦難.

結果寫這個文章的支那人, 以帝國主義的口吻寫出那篇文章, 整個文章最關鍵的部份,
完全違背他們支那人支持的大西洋憲章裡面所載明的原則. 不遵守這些原則在先,
反而霸道的說因為他們支那人已經無理的併吞台灣五十年, 所以支那擁有台灣主權是合法的.
這種化非法為合法的惡劣帝國主義思想, 竟然會在二十一世紀的支那人思考裡面.
這實在是非常的無恥.


(quote)
同時呢,國際法中還規定:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。好了,請聰明的同學回答一下,台灣已經被中華民國政府有效統治了多少年了^^?而民國無論是憲法還是版圖都仍然未變包括台灣大陸為整體的構架和放棄作為競爭中國中央政府的身份。
(quote finished)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Ultimate rebuttal quoted)
---their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other;

(compared with you chinese: 當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)

---respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live (you chinese said effective colonizing taiwan 50 years without taiwanese`s permission can let you say taiwan belong to taiwan??? Do you respect our rights to choose our government??)

(compared with you chinese:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)

---wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them (ie: you chinese deprive taiwanese`s right to choose government, and you chinese said we have no right to choose our own government simply because you ahd already EFFECTLY COLONIZED Taiwan 50 years???? Do you respect our right to choose our government based on what we want, and restore our sovereign rights to us???)

(compared with you chinese:當任一國政府對于無主權地, 有效統治達50年,則視同取得主權。)
(quote finished)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(引用: The Atlantic Charter, critical portion only)

First, their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other;

(請問台灣何時是你china的? 你片面宣稱台灣屬於你, 是不是 seek territorial aggrandisement? 中華民國殖民台灣五十年, 你國家不思改進, 反而威脅台灣不能正名為台灣國, 並說因為殖民五十年了, 所以即使任何法理上通通不合法, 根據先佔原則, 你們也硬要說台灣是你們的. 這是不是 seek territorial aggrandizement?)

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;

(這點非常關鍵. 你們片面宣稱台灣是你們的, 並且先入為主的使用統一這個字眼, 請問台灣人反對, 你們有聽進去一絲一毫嗎?)

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;

(這點更重要. 關鍵字是 forcibly deprived of them. 台灣人被你中華民國大量屠殺, 專制獨裁, 高壓統治, 洗腦. 請問你們有 respect the right of formosan to choose the form of government under which they will live 嗎? 還是你們強迫台灣接受篡改的歷史, 強迫台灣接受一中, 好名正言順的併吞台灣? 請問你們有 wish to see sovereign rights and self government resotred to formosan 嗎? 還是你們希望完全剝奪台灣獨立建國, 追求自己的主權呢?)

(quote finished)


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