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¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 08:16 | |
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willshaw ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 09:18 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
51Ѽֳ¡Án©ú ¥¬§ÆÁ`²Î§Y±N¦bµØ©²µoªí¦³Ãö¥ì©Ô§J±¡¶Õªººt»¡,§Ú̯S§O¦A°w¹ï¥ì©Ô§J±¡¶Õµoªí¦p¤U¤§Án©ú: §Ṵ́í¨M¤ä«ù¬ü^Ápxµo°Ê[¥ì©Ô§J¸Ñ©ñ¾Ôª§],¥H§¹¦¨[²Ä¤G¶¥¬q¤Ï®£¾Ôª§],ºR·´¤Ï¬ü®£©Æ¥D¸qªº¤@³B·Å§É,±À½¼É¬F,¼f§P¾Ô¥Ç,¦b¤¤ªF¿p´µªL¥@¬É«Ø¥ß²Ä¤@Ó¥Á¥D¸ÕÂI,Åý¹¡¨ü¼É§gÂíÀ£»P¥£§Ðªº¿p´µªL±o¥H¨É¨ü¥Á¥D¦Û¥Ñ¤HÅvªkªv. §Ṵ́í¨M¤ä«ù¬ü^Ápxµo°Ê[¥ì©Ô§J¸Ñ©ñ¾Ôª§],¥H°µ¬°««Ø²z©Ê¥@¬É¯´§Çªº°_ÂI,[¥ì©Ô§J¸Ñ©ñ¾Ôª§]µ²§ô«á,§Ú̱N¨Ì¦¸¸Ñ¨M¤Ï¬ü®£©Æ¥D¸qªº«á¥x¦ÑÁó,¥]¬A¥_Áú»P¥ì®Ô³o¨âÓ[¨¸´c¶b¤ß]°ê»P¤¤°ê³oÓ[¨¸´c«Ò°ê],³o¨Ç°ê®a¶¡±µ©Îª½±µ¦b¹ªÀy©Î¤ä«ù©Î¨ó§U¤Ï¬üªº®£©Æ¥÷¤l»P®£©Æ²Õ´,¥ø¹Ï§xÂZ©Î«d®z©Î¥´Ë¬ü°ê,¥H«K§¤¤j. §Ṵ́í¨M¤ä«ù¬ü^µo°Ê[¥ì©Ô§J¸Ñ©ñ¾Ôª§],¥H¾d©T¬ü°ê¦b¥þ¥@¬Éªº»â¾ÉÅv,¬ü°êªº¥@¬É»â¾ÉÅvµ´¤£³\ªk«X¤¤¼w³o¨Ç°ê®a¨Ó¬D¾Ô©Î½èºÃ,§Ṵ́í¨Mnºûô»P¾d©T¬ü°ê¦b¥þ¥@¬Éªº»â¾ÉÅv,¬ü°êªº¥@¬É»â¾ÉÅvªººûô»P±j¤Æ§ñÃö¥xÆWªº¥Í¦s»P¦w¥þ,¤]Ãö«Y¨ì¤HÃþ¤å©úªº¦sÄò¤Î¥þ¥@¬É¤H¥ÁªººÖ¬ç. (¥»¤H¥Nªí51Ѽֳ¡·|ªø©P«ÂÀM±i¶K) |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 09:27 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
¤Ï¾Ôªº¡u¥»½è¡v¤]¬O¡u§_©w©Ê¡v ¥¦©Ò¡u§_©w¡vªº¬O¡u¾Ô¡v¡I ¤]¦]¦¹¡A¡u¤Ï¾Ô¡v³oÓ½×z ªí±¤W¬O©M¥ ¹ê½è¤WÁÙ¬OÄÝ©ó¡u¦n¾Ô¬£¡v What a infantile and inane attempt at sophistry ! I think you would be better served to learn some basic logics and some Chinese syntax. |
Äé³» ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 10:15 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
¤Ï¾Ô¥u¬O¤Ï¬üªºÂǤf, ·R²{§@¨qªº·s¥ª¬£¤ßºA. ·í¥ì©Ô«È¥Î¯«¸g¬r®ðÁSÄê¬r®ð´Ý®`®w¼w±Ú´X¤QÓ§ø²ø. ³o¨Ç«µø¤H¹D·R¦n©M¥ªº¤Ï¾Ô¤H¤h¦bþ? ³£¦º¥ú¤F¶Ü? ²{¦b¤~¬¡¹L¨Ó°_¥ä? |
¤p¤¤ ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 10:26 | |
¦^À³YLªº¬Ýªk | |
»y¨¥ªº¬É½u¡A´N¬O§ÚÌ¥@¬Éªº·¥ -Wittgenstein Ludwig- ±qYLªº¨¥»¡ ¤]´N¬O»¡¡G¥ô¦ó½×z¡A¥»½è¤W´N¬O¤@ºØ»ùÈ¿ï¾Ü §Ú©Ò±j½Õªº¬O |
·¡¼C ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 14:41 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
³o¤@¦¸,¥ì©Ô§J. ¤U¤@¦¸,¤¤°ê. |
¹L«È ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 14:57 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
¡Ö¡ÖÓ¤H¹ï¦h¤¸»ùȪº¡u¥]®e¡v»P¡u¦Û§Ú׬°¡v ¤]±©¦³¦p¦¹¡A¤~¯à¸õ²æ¤G¤¸²Å½Xªº»y¨¥¬É½u¡I¡Õ¡Õ Ó¤H¥H¬°¡A¥xÆWªº±Ð¨|¨î«×¡]¡§¼Ð·Çµª®×¡¨¡G¹ï©Î¤£¹ï¡^¡A |
²}¥J ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 15:22 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
³o¥y¸Ü¸ÑŪ°_¨Ó¨Ã¤£¥®¸X. ·N«ä¬O¤Ï¾Ô, §_©w¾Ôªº¤H, ªí±¤W¬O©M¥, ¹ê½è¤W´N¬O¦b¤ä«ù¦n¾Ôªº¤H(¦p®ü¬À¬FÅv)µ¥©óÄÝ©ó¡u¦n¾Ô¬£¡v |
«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/18 18:11 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
§ÚÌ¥xÆW¦³¦ó¥ß³õ¤Ï¬ü¤Î¤Ï¾Ô¡H ¡i¤×¨ä¨üµÛ´c¾F¸¼u®£À~¡ã§ÚÌn©ñ±ó¬ü°êªº¨ó¨¾ªZ¤O¡H§ÚÌn©ñ±ó¤ÏÀ»ªº¯à¶q¡H¡j ¯º¸Ü¡I¡ã ¡i§Ú¤@ª½¥H¬°¬O¤¤°ê¤H¥Á³Ì¦³¥ß³õ¤Ï¾Ô¡I.........µ²ªG¤¤°ê¤H¥Á¤£¦b¤¤°ê¤Ï¾Ô¡I«o¶]¨Ó¥xÆW¤Ï¾Ô°Õ¡H¡j ¯u¬O¯º¸Ü¡I¡ã¡ã |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 00:47 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Hsiao Chung: Please think over the original assertions by Hsiao Fang. Your challenge of mine is more suitable for his. |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 01:00 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Following is a news item from the website, www.antiwar.com. War in Iraq a crime, says Vatican From correspondents in Vatican City March 18, 2003 MILITARY intervention against Iraq would be a crime against peace demanding vengeance before God, the head of the Vaticans Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace has said. War is a crime against peace which cries for vengeance before God, said Archbishop Renato Raffaele Martino, speaking on Vatican Radio. He stressed the deeply unjust and immoral nature of war, saying it was condemned by God because civilians were the worst sufferers. Martino, formerly Vatican permanent representative to the United Nations, strongly denounced the determination of the United States and its allies to disarm Iraq by force. Do not reply with a stone to the child who asks for bread, he said.
Stressing the Roman Catholic church would continue to insist on the need and the urgency of peace, he said: As always, it will be the Good Samaritan who will bind the wounds of a wounded and weakened people. Pope John Paul II, one of the most prominent opponents of war on Iraq, urged UN Security Council members yesterday to continue negotiations on the disarmament of Iraq and avert a looming military conflict. I want to remind UN members and particularly those who make up the Security Council that the use of force is the last resort after having exhausted all peaceful solutions, as stipulated by the UN charter, the Pope told tens of thousands of worshippers gathered in St Peters Square. I lived through World War II and I survived the Second World War. For this reason, I have the duty to say Never again war. We know that it is impossible to say peace at any price, but we all know how important our responsibility is.
As to the factual basis of the allegation that the anti-war camp was absent when Saddam gassed the Kurds and Iranians, please visit the said website and learn something before placing any blame! |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 01:22 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
A few paragraphs from an article, generations of lies...., by Christopher Manion ( can be found in viewpoints in www.antiwar.com) >>So today I listen very carefully to advocates of the war on Iraq. I don¡¦t find them persuasive. Their arguments don¡¦t parse. They¡¦re full of glib assertions, personal attacks, evidence stretched to the breaking point, table-pounding, more personal attacks, somber pieties, and hackneyed platitudes. I constantly wonder, do they indulge in such simplistic banalities because they think the American people are incapable of sophisticated discussion? Or do they themselves embrace these sophistries? Either way, there are troubling questions. Which is, no doubt, why they don¡¦t want us to ask them. In fact, suppressing the forbidden questions has been a constant theme since 9-11. Too late to argue, you navel-contemplators! Now is the time for action, not discussion. You¡¦ve lost the argument, they harrumph and sneer. But there hasn¡¦t been any argument. In fact, we have seen a decided refusal to engage in honest discussion. Congress has refused to consider and debate a Declaration of War. And just last week the State Department and the Defense Department refused to send anyone to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about the administration¡¦s democratic plans for post-war Iraq, even though Chairman Richard Lugar had specifically requested them to. Discussion is forbidden. We get only endless sloganeering and tub-thumping, tawdry banalities like axis of evil and if you¡¦re not with us, you¡¦re against us. And, my all-time favorite, they hate us because we¡¦re so good. (It should not be overlooked that many of them were crafted by cynical, self-seeking manipulators looking for a boost in their bureaucratic careers). There is no discussion of the difficulties democracy might face in the postwar Middle East, or of our special relationships with Britain and Israel that are a centerpiece of our policies. These key issues are worthy of adult discussion, free of name-calling, epithets, and all the rest. Scholars discuss and debate them all the time. But such discussion is not permitted in the political realm. The warriors have done their best to frame the Iraq issue this way: this war pits millions of freedom-loving Americans against the Marxist wackos, left-wing weenies, and Old Europe has-beens who support terrorism, torture, and throwing babies out of incubators (oops, that lie was from the last war). However, we could just as honestly frame it thus: this war pits millions of freedom-loving and peaceable Americans against a powerful clique of Trotskyite and Straussian academics, and their acolytes in government, who want to use our armed forces to pave the world with made-in-America imperial democracies. It must be their passion for democracy that prompts them to urge the Turkish military to overthrow Turkey¡¦s duly elected democratic government. That government impudently turned down tens of billions of American taxpayer dollars in bribes and still refuses to allow American troops to invade Iraq from Turkish soil. It must be overthrown, in the name of democracy! << |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 04:58 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Check what the New York Times has to say about this unnecessary, imminent war: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/18TUE1.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/18KRIS.html and http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/18KRUG.html The first one is nytimes editorial. The second one, Cassandra Speaks, focused on the lessons (hopefully) we can learn from the Troyan War as related by Homer. The third one covered the possible bitter fruits all human beings are going to be forced to swallow! Hsiao Fang, do you still think those anti-war people are insincere and without vision? Wake up to face the facts! Wake up from the jingoistic propaganda and dream! |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 05:22 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
A well reasoned speech by Cook, Labor leader in the House of UK, on the case of against the war. (from BBC) < I must confess that I had forgotten how much better the view is from here. None of those 20 years were more enjoyable or more rewarding than the past two, in which I have had the immense privilege of serving this House as Leader of the House, which were made all the more enjoyable, Mr Speaker, by the opportunity of working closely with you. It was frequently the necessity for me as Leader of the House to talk my way out of accusations that a statement had been preceded by a press interview. On this occasion I can say with complete confidence that no press interview has been given before this statement. I have chosen to address the House first on why I cannot support a war without international agreement or domestic support. Backing Blair The present Prime Minister is the most successful leader of the Labour party in my lifetime. I hope that he will continue to be the leader of our party, and I hope that he will continue to be successful. I have no sympathy with, and I will give no comfort to, those who want to use this crisis to displace him. I applaud the heroic efforts that the prime minister has made in trying to secure a second resolution. I do not think that anybody could have done better than the foreign secretary in working to get support for a second resolution within the Security Council. But the very intensity of those attempts underlines how important it was to succeed. Now that those attempts have failed, we cannot pretend that getting a second resolution was of no importance. French intransigence? France has been at the receiving end of bucket loads of commentary in recent days. It is not France alone that wants more time for inspections. Germany wants more time for inspections; Russia wants more time for inspections; indeed, at no time have we signed up even the minimum necessary to carry a second resolution. We delude ourselves if we think that the degree of international hostility is all the result of President Chirac. The reality is that Britain is being asked to embark on a war without agreement in any of the international bodies of which we are a leading partner - not NATO, not the European Union and, now, not the Security Council. To end up in such diplomatic weakness is a serious reverse. Only a year ago, we and the United States were part of a coalition against terrorism that was wider and more diverse than I would ever have imagined possible. Heavy price History will be astonished at the diplomatic miscalculations that led so quickly to the disintegration of that powerful coalition. The US can afford to go it alone, but Britain is not a superpower. Our interests are best protected not by unilateral action but by multilateral agreement and a world order governed by rules. Yet tonight the international partnerships most important to us are weakened: the European Union is divided; the Security Council is in stalemate. Those are heavy casualties of a war in which a shot has yet to be fired. I have heard some parallels between military action in these circumstances and the military action that we took in Kosovo. There was no doubt about the multilateral support that we had for the action that we took in Kosovo. It was supported by NATO; it was supported by the European Union; it was supported by every single one of the seven neighbours in the region. France and Germany were our active allies. It is precisely because we have none of that support in this case that it was all the more important to get agreement in the Security Council as the last hope of demonstrating international agreement. Public doubts The legal basis for our action in Kosovo was the need to respond to an urgent and compelling humanitarian crisis. Our difficulty in getting support this time is that neither the international community nor the British public is persuaded that there is an urgent and compelling reason for this military action in Iraq. The threshold for war should always be high. None of us can predict the death toll of civilians from the forthcoming bombardment of Iraq, but the US warning of a bombing campaign that will shock and awe makes it likely that casualties will be numbered at least in the thousands. I am confident that British servicemen and women will acquit themselves with professionalism and with courage. I hope that they all come back. I hope that Saddam, even now, will quit Baghdad and avert war, but it is false to argue that only those who support war support our troops. It is entirely legitimate to support our troops while seeking an alternative to the conflict that will put those troops at risk. Nor is it fair to accuse those of us who want longer for inspections of not having an alternative strategy. For four years as foreign secretary I was partly responsible for the western strategy of containment. Over the past decade that strategy destroyed more weapons than in the Gulf war, dismantled Iraqs nuclear weapons programme and halted Saddams medium and long-range missiles programmes. Iraqs military strength is now less than half its size than at the time of the last Gulf war. Threat questioned Ironically, it is only because Iraqs military forces are so weak that we can even contemplate its invasion. Some advocates of conflict claim that Saddams forces are so weak, so demoralised and so badly equipped that the war will be over in a few days. We cannot base our military strategy on the assumption that Saddam is weak and at the same time justify pre-emptive action on the claim that he is a threat. Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term - namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target. It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories. Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create? Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddams ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors? Israeli breaches Only a couple of weeks ago, Hans Blix told the Security Council that the key remaining disarmament tasks could be completed within months. I have heard it said that Iraq has had not months but 12 years in which to complete disarmament, and that our patience is exhausted. Yet it is more than 30 years since resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories. We do not express the same impatience with the persistent refusal of Israel to comply. I welcome the strong personal commitment that the prime minister has given to middle east peace, but Britains positive role in the middle east does not redress the strong sense of injustice throughout the Muslim world at what it sees as one rule for the allies of the US and another rule for the rest. Nor is our credibility helped by the appearance that our partners in Washington are less interested in disarmament than they are in regime change in Iraq. That explains why any evidence that inspections may be showing progress is greeted in Washington not with satisfaction but with consternation: it reduces the case for war. Presidential differences What has come to trouble me most over past weeks is the suspicion that if the hanging chads in Florida had gone the other way and Al Gore had been elected, we would not now be about to commit British troops. The longer that I have served in this place, the greater the respect I have for the good sense and collective wisdom of the British people. On Iraq, I believe that the prevailing mood of the British people is sound. They do not doubt that Saddam is a brutal dictator, but they are not persuaded that he is a clear and present danger to Britain. They want inspections to be given a chance, and they suspect that they are being pushed too quickly into conflict by a US Administration with an agenda of its own. Above all, they are uneasy at Britain going out on a limb on a military adventure without a broader international coalition and against the hostility of many of our traditional allies. From the start of the present crisis, I have insisted, as Leader of the House, on the right of this place to vote on whether Britain should go to war. It has been a favourite theme of commentators that this House no longer occupies a central role in British politics. Nothing could better demonstrate that they are wrong than for this House to stop the commitment of troops in a war that has neither international agreement nor domestic support. I intend to join those tomorrow night who will vote against military action now. It is for that reason, and for that reason alone, and with a heavy heart, that I resign from the government. >> Think. Think. Think. |
£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 06:53 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
¦b yl NO:484_12 ±ÀŲªº²Ä¤T½g¤¤¡A§A¥i¥H¬Ý PAUL KRUGMAN §å¬ü°ê´CÅé³Q¥D¾Ô¬£±±¨îªºÃÒ¾Ú¡C§@·«Ü¹³¥xÆW´CÅé³á¡C >>Instead we got assertions about a nuclear program that turned out to be based on flawed or faked evidence; we got assertions about a link to Al Qaeda that people inside the intelligence services regard as nonsense. Yet those serial embarrassments went almost unreported by our domestic news media. So most Americans have no idea why the rest of the world doesnt trust the Bush administrations motives. And once the shooting starts, the already loud chorus that denounces any criticism as unpatriotic will become deafening. << |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 06:55 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
§Ú¹ï www.antiwar.com ³oÓÄ꯸¥¢±æ³z³»¡A¥L̪ºªF¦è§Ú¦¤w ¤£®h¬Ý¡C¥´µÛ Libertarian ªººX¸¹«o±`¥HÂù«¼Ð·Ç¬Ý«Ý¨Æ±¡¡A ¥O¤H¹½´cªºµê°°ºA«×¡C ¨ºÓ Cook ¤]¨S¤°»ò¦n´£ªº >>> Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly ¥ì©Ô§J¤~¾P·´ªº¼u¹D¸¼uÃø¹D¬O°²ªº¡S¨â¥ì¾Ôª§¤¤¤¬®g¸¼uªº ¨S¦³ ICBM ¤£¥Nªí¥ì©Ô§J´N¤£¨ã«Â¯Ù¡C >>> Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm ©l§@«MªÌªº²V³J¤£¦¬¬BÄêÅu¤l¨ºnµ¥½Ö¦¬¬B¡S ¥ì©Ô§J¤£Â_´ÛÄFÁp¦X°ê¡B¬ãµo·s WMD ¡C²{¦b¤£¸Ñ¨MÃø¹Dnµ¥ >>> Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddams ambition §Ú¤]¤£¤ä«ù³o¶g°¨¤W´N¥´¡C¦ý¬O«á¥b¥y¡SUN ³o»ò¦³¥Îªº¸Ü §Y¨Ï¬O¤£§¹µ½ªº¤èªk¤]¸Ó¥Î¨ì³Ì«á¥HÁ×§K³ÌÁV¿|ªº¾Ôª§¤è®×¡A¦ý¥H¤£Ä@±¹ï²{¹ê Think. Think. Think. »¡ªº«Ü¦n¡A¤@¯ë¦Ñ¦Ê©mµ´¤£¸Ó¤J¤G¤Àªk¦Ó¤@©wn ¦³¤HÄ@·N·í½|¤£ÁÙ¤f ³Q¬å¤£Á٤⪺ pure pacifist ¨º¨SÃö«Y¡A¦ý³o¨Ç ´£¨ì¥H¦â¦C¡A§Ú¤]§¹¥þÃÙ¦¨¥@¬É¥ÎÄY®æªººA«×À˵ø¤Î¨î¤î¥H¦â¦C¹ï ·í°ê»Ú¤W¦³Âù«¼Ð·Ç®ÉÀ³¸Ó¥Î¥¿½Tªº¤èªk¸Ñ¨M©Ò¦³¨Æ¡A¦Ó¤£¬O |
¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 07:29 | |
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¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 07:47 | |
Re:AL | |
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¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 07:54 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
³Ì«á ±z©Ò¦^ÂЪº¡A¥u¬O¤@¨Ç³ø¾É ÄY®æ¦Ó¨¥¡A¥¦¥u¬O¤@ºØ¡u¹D¼w½×z¡v ²³¦h»ùȤ¤ªº¤@ºØ¡I ¤H¤£¦P©ó°Êª«¡A¦bº®¤H¨ã¦³¡u¤Ï«ä©Ê¡v ¡]¤p§Ì§Úµ´µL¹ï±z¤£·q¡A¬Æ²`·PÁ±zªº¦^ÂС^ ÁÂÁ¡I |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 09:10 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
vor allem: I see that you swallowed the assertions of the US government hook and sinker. The missiles in dispute are not ICBM. The dispute was about its range exceed the 93 miles ordered in UN resolution. I read somewhere that it would be within the regulation if it is fully loaded with the explosive and the guidance. The 12,000 some WMD you alleged is not accounted for satisfatorily. But the claim that they exist now is very shaky. Hans Blix could not find them. Yet, the people who claim they have the information do not want to give the information to Blix and facilitate the completion of the professed desired disarmament. How could anyone take this kind people seriously when they also claimed they want peace? Anti-war =/= pacifist! Youd better clarify your thinking and facts before you put forth your reasons. |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 09:14 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Hsiao Fang: I am not going to argue with you about the ontological questions. I will only suggest you to think about the following |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 13:01 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
>>> The missiles in dispute are not ICBM. §Ú¤w¸g»¡¹L¤F¡A¨S¦³ ICBM ¤£¥Nªí¥ì©Ô§J¨S¦³§ðÀ»§O°êªº¯à¤O¡C >>>12,000 some WMD you alleged is not accounted for satisfatorily. ¥ì©Ô§J¦Û¤v©Ó»{¦³150000 ªT¡A¥LÌ»¡100000 ªT¥Î¦b¨â¥ì¾Ôª§¤¤¡A ¦Ü©ó Anthrax¡Bbotulinum ¡Baflatoxin µ¥§ó¦h²Ó¸`®Ú¥»¤£¥Î§Ú«½Æ¡A ¬°¤°»òÁp¦X°ên§ó¦h®É¶¡¡S´N¬Onµ¹ªZÀˤHû¹G¥ì©Ô§J´N½d¡C >>> Anti-war =/= pacifist! Anti-war ¤£µ¥©ópacifist ¡C¦ý¤fºÙ¤Ï¾ÔÁÙ¸C²´»¡½M¸Üªº´À¥ì©Ô§J >>>Youd better clarify your thinking and facts before you put forth ³o¥y¸Ü¥»¤Hì«Ê¤£°Êªº°eÁÙµ¹§A¡C¥ì©Ô§J¹L¥h¤Q¦~¸òÁp¦X°ê¤¬°Ê ¤Ï¹ï¬ü°ê¶}¾Ô¤]¸Ó¦³ì«h¡C¤Ï¬ü¤Ï¨ì´À¥ì©Ô§J»¡¸Ü¡A²ª½¯«¸g¡C |
¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 22:56 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Presupposition on Human Nature--Yes The Epistemic Possibility of Historic-Social Logic---The Focus ¬JµMYL¥S³o»ò³ßÅw½Í¹êÃÒ± ¤p§Ì§Ú´N¬O¡u¥D¾Ô¡v ±O±þ¡u®w¼w±Ú¡vªº®ÉÔ¡A¤Ï¾Ô¬£¦bþ¸Ì¡H¡I ¤@¤j¸s¥ì©Ô§J¤H¥Á¡]¥]¬A¤p«Ä¡^¡A°ªÁ|µÛºjªK ¾Ôª§ªºµ²§½¬O¡u¥Í©Rªº®ø³u¡v «D±o¿ï¾Ü¡A§Ú¹ç¥i¬Û«H¦è¤è¥Á¥DÅé¨î¡BÓ¤H¥D¸q ¤]±©¦³¦p¦¹¥Í¬¡Åé¨î¡A§A§Ú¤~¯à¦b¦¹¨¥»¡¡A¦Ó¤£¬O¥b©]³Q®ü¬À©Ô¥h±O±þ¡I ¨ä¹ê¦b³o¸Ì¡A¤p§Ì·Qnªí¹Fªº¬O ¬N©ó²{¹ê¡A±N¤Ï¾Ôµø¬°¡u¬Fªv¥¿½T¡v YL¥S¤@ª½»{¬°§Úªº½×z¬Osophistry «_¬N¤§³B¡A½Ð«ü±Ð¡I |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/19 23:58 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
vor allem: I am wondering who is anti-America in this case, and who is pro-Saddam? The facts in dispute should be resolved through the UN Security Council--that is via the agreed upon inspection regime. Your blatant and mendacious attempt to equate anti-war with pro-Saddam is groundless and futile, and not amusing at all. It only shows that you do not have the capacity to reason and do not have the facts on your side. It dose seem to me that you are a true believe of that infamous Goebbels. Repeating the lies as many times as you want, but it wont make them real. As to the sanity of any person concerned, I do not have to add anything besides your own words for all to evaluate. Let me quote the Pope to conclude this verbal spat, Whoever decides that all peaceful means under international law have been exhausted is assuming a grave responsibility before God, his conscience and before history. |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 00:30 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Hsiao Fang: Apparently you can not differentiate the difference between invasion and defense. War and anti-war is equally for war in your lexicon. You saw the pictures the Iraqis waving weapons in Baghdad (definitely on the order of Saddam!), and concluded that they did not respect others lives. I just want to ask one simple question, Whom are they threatening outside Iraq? Dropping bombs on their heads is more respectful of the sanctity of human life, you seem mean to say? |
¥´ª¯´Î ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 00:39 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
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vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 08:04 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
yl ¡R §Úªº¥ß³õ«Ü²M·¡¡A¦A¶K¤@¹M¡V >§Y¨Ï¬O¤£§¹µ½ªº¤èªk¤]¸Ó¥Î¨ì³Ì«á¥HÁ×§K³ÌÁV¿|ªº¾Ôª§¤è®×¡A §Ú§¹¥þ¤ä«ù¥ý¸Õ¹Ï¥ý¥Î UN ¸Ñ¨M¡AµM¦Ó§Ú³Ì¬Ý¤£ºDªº´N¬O §Ú®Ú¥»¤£»{ÃѤ°»ò Goebbels ¡C ¬JµM§A»¡ ¦n¡A¨º§A§â¥ì©Ô§J¦Û¤v±q¤@¤E¤E¤@¦~¾Ôª§«á¨ì¤µ¦~¬°¤î«Å§G ¦pªG¬O§Ú»¡¿ù¤F¡A¨º¥¿¦nµ¹§A¤@¦¸¾÷·|ÃÒ©ú§Aªº»¡ªk¤~¹ï¡A §A¶}¤f³¬¤f»¡¤°»ò reason¡Blogic Áٽͤ@°ïªºõ¾ÇªF¦è¡A nquote ½Ö¤£·|¡R fact ®³¥X¨Ó¡C§Ú¿ù¤F´N¿ù¤F¡A¨S¤°»ò¥i®¢ªº¡A¦]¬°¤j®a³£·|¥Ç¿ù¡C |
¤p¤è ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 08:06 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
YL¥S¥H¨âÓ¼h±¥hªí¹F¥Lªº½×z ¤@Ó¬O±q¡u«I²¤ªÌ¡v»P¡u¨¾½ÃªÌ¡vªº¨¤«× ¤@Ó¬O±q¬Fªv§Q¯qªº¨¤«× ¤p§Ì§Ú¥u¬O¬õ¹Ð«U¥@¤¤ªº¡u¤p®Ñ¹¡v
¨¾½Ã»P§ðÀ»ªÌ¥u¦³¦s¦b¡u§Q¯q¤¬°ÊªºÅv¤OÃö«Y¤¤¡v Á¿¬Fªv§Q¯q¡A§Ú̳£ª¾¹D¡A¨ä¹ê¤£ºÞ¥ì©Ô§J¡A¬J¨Ï¦b¤§«eªº¥ì®Ô¬FÅv YL¥S°Ú¡I³o¤~¬O¥@¬Éªº¡u¯u¹ê¹Ï¹³¡v¡I ¥D¾Ô¤]¦n¤Ï¾Ô¤]¦n ²Ä¤GÂI·PIJ¡G ¬ù¿«¥Ì¤D}´¿»¡¹L¡G¤H¥Í¥»¨Ó´N¤£¥µ¥ |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 08:41 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
«¥Ì¥ý¨Ó¬Ý¬Ý¡A¥ì©Ô§J¤@¤E¤E¤K¦~°±¤î¸ò UN ¦X§@®É¡A UNSCOM ¤Q¤ë°µ¥Xªº³ø§i¡R Iraq claims to have consumed 2870 tonnes of CW agent in the period 1981-88, but UNSCOM has not been able to verify this. The following items remain unaccounted for: ±µ¤U¨Ó¬Ý¬Ý¤µ¦~¡R THE SECURITY COUNCIL, 27 JANUARY 2003: AN UPDATE ON INSPECTION Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC, Dr. Hans Blix ¤]¤£»¡¨ä¥Lªº¡A³æ¬Ý¤Æ¾ÇªZ¾¹¨º³¡¥÷¡R «Ü©úÅã¡A§Y¨Ï§Ú̬۫H¥ì©Ô§J¬O¸Û¹êªº¨ÄÄ_Ä_´£¨Ñ¥¿½Tªº¤å¥ó¡A ½Ö¶}¤f³¬¤fÁp¦X°ê¡A¤S³sÁp¦X°êªº¤å¥ó³£ÁÙ»¡ ¬ü°ê´£¤£¥X¤°»òª¯§¾ªF¦è´Nn¥´¨º¬O¬ü°êJ¾xªºµw·F¡A |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 08:54 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Hans Blix ¤T¤ë¤Q¤E¤é»¡¡R I would like further to make some specific comments that relate to the Draft Programme. I am aware of ideas which have been advanced that specific groups of disarmament issues could be tackled and solved within specific time lines. The programme does not propose such an approach, in which, say, we would aim at addressing and resolving the issues of anthrax and VX in March and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) in April. In the work we pursued until now we worked broadly and did not neglect any identified disarmament issues. However, it is evidently possible for the Council to single out a few issues for resolution within a specific time, just as the draft programme before you selects twelve key tasks progress on which could have an impact on the Councils assessment of cooperation of Iraq under resolution 1284 (1999). Whatever approach is followed, results will depend on Iraqs active cooperation on substance. ³o¤~¬O¥¿½T¹ïºA«×¡C§â´XÓ¸û«nªºªF¦è±j¢¥ì©Ô§J ¤T¤ë¤Q¤E¤é¡R Concerning a number of unresolved issues, Blix told Council members that ¤j®a¥i¥H¬Ý¬ÝUN Inspector ¹ï©ó¬ü°ê¶}¾Ô¤Î¥ì©Ô§JªººA«×¡C ºô¤W³ÌÁV¿|ªº´N¬O§Ú̱`±`·|¬Ý¨ì°¾¿Eªº¨â·¥¡A¤£¬OµL±ø¥ó¤ä«ù |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 09:05 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
§Ú¤ä«ùªº¤è®×¬O¡R ------- ÅÚ½³¸ò´Î¤ln¤@°_¥Î¡C¹³¥ì©Ô§J³oºØÄê¬FÅv³£¬O¤£¨£´Ã§÷ Áp¦X°ê¤]¬OÓ«ÜÄꪺ²Õ´¡C¦ý¦b¥ì©Ô§JijÃD¤W¡A¥ô¦óÄê¤è®× |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 10:36 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
«ç»ò°µ¤~³Ì¯àºû«ù¥@¬É©M¥¡S ½Ö¤~¯u¥¿¥H½ñ¹êªº¨¤«×¥h¸Ñ¨M°ÝÃD¡S ¹ï©ó³o¨âÓ°ÝÃD¡A§ÚÌÀ˵ø´£¥X¬FªvÆ[ÂIªº¬F©²©Î ¤Ï¹ïªÌ¦³¨S¦³´£¥X¥¿½T¥i¦æªº´À¥N¤è®×¡S ¦pªG¨S¦³¦nªº¸Ñ¨M¼Ò¦¡¡A¦A¦hªº§å§P³£¬O¼o¸Ü¡A §å¬ü°ê«Ü¦n¡B¤Ï¾Ô¤]«Ü¦n¡C¦ý¦]¤Ï¹ï¬ü°êÆN¬£¤~¤Ï¾Ô¥B |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 11:12 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
vor allem: Haha, have I ever defended Iraq? I am wondering where did you get that idea? The problem with you is that you began with repeating the propaganda (as stated and repeated by the Bush administration), which are either on shaky ground or refuted by the the UNMOVIC, and followed by equating anti-war camp as anti-American and pro-Iraq. You said, ¦³¤HÄ@·N·í½|¤£ÁÙ¤f ³Q¬å¤£Á٤⪺ pure pacifist ¨º¨SÃö«Y¡A¦ý³o¨Ç¤H³Ì¦n§O´Á±æ¤@¯ë¤H¤]³o»ò¤Ñ¯u¥BÄ@·N³Q©ÔµÛ¤@°_³Q¬å¡C Was this not your attempt to smear? I have not posted anything asking anybody to turn the other cheek. You said, Anti-war ¤£µ¥©ópacifist ¡C¦ý¤fºÙ¤Ï¾ÔÁÙ¸C²´»¡½M¸Üªº´À¥ì©Ô§J »¡¸Ü¡B¬°¤Ï¦Ó¤Ï¡A³o´Nµ´¹ï¬O pacifist ÀY¸£¤£²M·¡¬°ªý¤î¾Ôª§ ¦Ó¤£¾Ü¤â¬q¡B«H¤f¶}ªeªº¯gª¬¡C I do not know where I claimed that I am a muddle headed pacifist. You said,UN ³o»ò¦³¥Îªº¸Ü,¥ì©Ô§J«ç»ò¨ì²{¦bÁÙ¦³¤@¸U¤»¤dªT¥Í¤Æ¬µ¼u¡S And now you make a U-turn saying that you are agreeing with resolving this crisis through the UN inspection regime. Did you not also say previously, ¥ì©Ô§J¤£Â_´ÛÄFÁp¦X°ê¡B¬ãµo·s WMD ¡C²{¦b¤£¸Ñ¨MÃø¹Dnµ¥¤H®a·sªZ¾¹¥þ³£°µ¥X¨Ó¯à«Â¯Ù§O¤H¦A·Q¿ìªk¡S It turns out that inspection is working fine, which you seem to agree now, but someone apparently can not controll his itchy trigger finger. I said before that the US should give the information on the alleged cheating of Iraq to the UN for the inspection to finish its task. But you retorted that I was trying to cosmeticize Iraq. Is it not a stretch and a distortion on your part? Yes, Iraq did not follow some previous UN resolutions to the letter. But that is exactly the reason why resolution 1441 came to pass and any cheating is up to the Security Council to resolve. As to the 1441, I did not read anywhere that Blix said Iraq has committed material breach as claimed by Bush and Blair. The whole controversy arose from my protesting the equating anti-war with pro-war. I posted some articles that encourage people to think critically. I said that I found antiwar.com, which you detested very much, is a rather nice repository of news and opinions from many newspapers and magazines all over the world. It was you who started the mud-sling. If you keep your sanity and integrity, I guess you can learn something. |
¹L«È ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 11:30 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
NO:484_31>>¤Ï¹ïªÌ¦³¨S¦³´£¥X¥¿½T¥i¦æªº´À¥N¤è®×¡S<< ¤@°w¨£¦å. ³o¦P¼Ë¾A©ó©ó¥xÆW°ê¤ºªº¦b³¥ÄÒ. |
vor allem ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/20 12:18 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
yl ¡R §A»¡²M·¡¡A§Ú»¡ªº¤°»òªF¦è¬O¥¬§Æªº¬Fªv«Å¶Ç¡S ¦Ü¤µ§A°£¤F¤£Â_¦©´U¤l¥~¤@ª½¨S¦C¥X¥ô¦ó½T¹ê¼Æ¾Ú¤Î¤å¥ó ÃÒ©ú§A»¡ªº¡uBut the claim that they exist now is very shaky¡v §Ú©ú½Tªº¦b NO:484_15 «ü¥X UN ªº¯ÊÂI¦bþ¡A >>> You said,UN ³o»ò¦³¥Îªº¸Ü,¥ì©Ô§J«ç»ò¨ì²{¦bÁÙ¦³ ¿ù¡A§ÚªººA«×±q¨Ó¨S¦³§ïÅÜ¡C¦A»¡¤@¦¸¡R ªZ¤O¸òUN ªZÀË¥²¶·¦P®É¨Ï¥Î¡C >>> Did you not also say previously, ¥ì©Ô§J¤£Â_´ÛÄFÁp¦X°ê¡B §AÁÙ¬O¤£À´¡C§Ú¶Kªº 1998 ¦~³ø§i´NÃÒ©ú¤FªZÀˤ@ª½¨S¦³¸Ñ¨M°ÝÃD¡A §Ú±j½Õªº¬O¡R §A¦Ñ¬O¥Ç¤U¤G¤Àªkªº¿ù»~¡A¤@©wn¦b¡u¤ä«ù¬ü°ê°ÊªZ¡v¤Î >>> I said before that the US should give the information on the ¬ü°êµLªkÃÒ©ú¬ü°ê«ö¦b¥ì©Ô§JÀY¤Wªº¸o¦W¬O¬ü°êªº¿ù¡A³o¥i¤£¥Nªí ¥ì©Ô§J°½Âó\¦h¤ÆªZ¤w¸g¬O¤½¶}ªº¨Æ¹ê¡A¥ô¦óµLµøÁp¦X°êªZÀË §ÚªºÆ[ÂI«Ü²¼ä¡R §Ú¹ï¤W±¤°»ò Catholic Church ©Î Anti-War.com ·P¨ì¤£¥H¬°µM |
soujiya¨ÖÄæ ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/23 17:49 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
henryhsu ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/22 15:51 ¥xÆW¤H¥²¬Ý!!³à¤ß¯f¨gªº²Î¬£¤Ï¾Ô¥÷¤l!! ¥xÆW¤H¥²¬Ý!!³à¤ß¯f¨gªº²Î¬£¤Ï¾Ô¥÷¤l!! ³o§å¤H«ç»ò±q¨Ó¤£¤Ï¹ï¤¤°ê¼i¦¸¹ï¥xªº¾Ôª§ ¤H¹D¥D¸q?¥xÆW¥¿±Á{¥@¬ö½E¬Ìªº¤j«Â¯Ù,©~µM¦]¬°¤¤°ê ================================================
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OBS ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/23 18:50 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
vor allemÆ[ÂI«Ü²¼ä¡R§Ú¤Ï¹ï¥ß¨è¥ÎªZ¡A¤]¤Ï¹ï§â°ÊªZ»¡¦¨µL´c¤£³jªºµo¨¥¡CªZ¤O ¤£¬O°ß¤@ªº¿ï¾Ü¡A¦ý·í¨ä¥L¤è®×³£¥¢±Ñ®É«hµ´¤£¸Ó±Æ°£ªZ¤O°µ¬°³Ì«áªº¤è®×¡C - - - vor allemÆ[ÂI«Ü¹ïªº¡C §Ú̦󤣦A·Q·Q¡A¬ü°êªá¥|Ó¤ë«Å¶Ç¡A·´·À³o¨ÇªZ¾¹¡C ¦p¦ó¸gÀÙ««Øµ¥±¹¬I¡A¬°¦ó¦³¤Hn¬G·N·í¥¢¾Ð¤H¡C n©M¥¤£¬O¦³¤Q¦~®É¶¡ªºµ¥«Ý¡AµM¦Ó¥ì©Ô§J¤w¿í¦u¤½¬ù¶Ü¡S¡S ¾Ôª§¤£¬O°ß¤@¸Ñ¨M¨Æ±¡ªº¤è®×¡A¦ý¬O¤£¯àÅý¤H¥Á¦³¦w¥þ·Pªº¬F©²¡C §ÚÌÄ@·N¤ä«ù¶Ü¡A¥xÆW¥Í¬¡ªº¤H´í´N¦p¼É¤O²Õ´ªº¥ì©Ô§J¡A¥u·R³y°²¡C |
yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/23 23:40 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
Get out of the myth you guys weaved with half truths and pitifully outright lies. Go and check what Said has to said in the following link, http://www.counterpunch.org/said03082003.html Also in the same website an article about why Iraq |
Luke-Skywalker ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/24 11:19 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
¤å¤Æª©ªº¤Ï¾ÔijÃD¡GÃö©ó¤Ï¾Ô«Å¨¥¡G·R¡A¬O¥þ¥@¬Éªº¨Æ¡C |
Luke-Skywalker ¡@©ó¡@2003/03/24 11:34 | |
Re:µê°°ªº¡u¤Ï¾Ô½×z¡v¡I | |
http://udn.com/NEWS/OPINION/X1/1244889.shtml ¤Ï¾Ô ½Ð§O³y¦¨¯}Ãa ¤ý©{¡þ±Ð¡]·s¦Ë¥«¡^ ¤@¤E¤E¤»¦~¤j³°¸¼u¹ïµÛ§ÚÌÂ\¡A¬ü°ê¬£¤F¾ÔÄ¥¨Ó¨ó¨¾¡C¥Á°ê¤K¤Q¤C¦~¸z¯f¬r¤j¬y¦æ¡A¬ü°ê³Ì¥ý¹ï§Ú̦ù¥X´©¤â¡C¤µ¦~¤£©úì¦]ªº«D¨å«¬ªÍª¢«Â¯Ù¥xÆW¡AÁÙ¬O¬ü°ê¥ýÀ°§ÚÌ¡C n¤Ï¾Ô¡A¦æ¡I¦ý½Ð²z©Ê¤@ÂI¡A¦³´¼¼z¤@ÂI¡C§O¹³«e´X¦~¤@¨Ç©v±Ð¹ÎÅé¡A§â³½¨à©ñ¥Í¤F¡A¤ÏÅý³o¨Ç³½³y¦¨¥ÍºA¯E§T¡C ¡u¤Ï¾Ô¡v¤Ï¹ïªº¬O¾Ôª§¡B¼É¦æ¡A©Ò¥H¤]½Ð¤£n¦b¤Ï¾Ôªº¦P®É¡A¤]¦b¥xÆW³y¦¨¯}Ãa¡B¼É¦æ¡C¦b¤j³°¤´¤£©ñ±óªZ¤O¥Ç¥xªº¦P®É¡A½Ð¯d¤U¤j³¡¤À¤O®ð¥h¸ò¤j³°§Üij¡A¤Ï¾Ô¡A³o¤~¬O¸ò§Ú̳̬ÛÃöªº¨Æ¡C ¡i2003/03/24 Áp¦X³ø¡j ¡¹Áp¦X³ø¥Á·N½×¾Â |
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