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RE ¾|¦×¸} >>>>¦ý¬OÓ¤H»{¬° ¤K¦~¤º¤¤°ê¦A´¹¶ê¥N¤u¤è±·|°l¤W¥xÆW ¤£¥i¯à°Õ. 2.5·L¦Ì»sµ{(¤Î§ó°ª¶¥»sµ{)ªº¾÷¾¹³]³Æ¦³ °ê»Ú¤½¬ùºÞ¨î¥X¤f¨ì¤¤°ê, ¤¤°ê¥i¹w¨£ªº±N¨ÓµLªk¨ú±o¥²nªº¥Í²£³]³Æ, «Ü¦h¯Ó§÷¥²¶·«ùÄòºûÅ@¸É¥R¤~¦æ. ¥Ø«e2.5·L¦Ì§Þ³N¦b¥xÆW¤wµM¤£ºâ¤°»ò°ª¬ì§Þ¤F. ¥Ø«e¥x¿n¹q Áp¹q¦Ñ¦¾Ö¦³ 0.9·L¦Ì (90 ©`¦Ì)¶q²£§Þ³N, ¤¤°ê·Q°l¤]¯uªº«Ü«÷ªº¤F.
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¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/07 21:35 | |
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Äé³»¥S¡A >>¥ý¶i°ê®a¨S¦³³Q«á¶i°ê®a»°¤W¹L. ¥Ã»·¶V°l¶V»· §A©Ò»¡¬O¨Æ¹ê,°ÝÃD¬O¥xÆW¬O¤£¬O¥ý¶i°ê®a? >>¥Ø«e¥x¿n¹q Áp¹q¦Ñ¦¾Ö¦³ 0.9·L¦Ì (90 ©`¦Ì)¶q²£§Þ³N §A¥u»¡¡u¾Ö¦³¡v¦Ó¨S»¡¡u¦Û¤v¶}µo¡v¡A¥i¨£§Þ³NÁÙ¬OÄÝ©ó¨ä¥¦¡u¥ý¶i°ê®a¡vªº! |
Äé³» ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/07 22:50 | |
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yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/07 23:17 | |
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NO:31_20 «n¹Å¥Í ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/07 17:21 «n¹Å¥Í: I agree very much with your assessment of the situation and the possible outcome of Simons proposal out of indignation (or frustration!?). |
¦è©Ô¨È ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 02:34 | |
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¥Ñ¥xÀs¥Sªºµo¨¥:§A¥u»¡¡u¾Ö¦³¡v¦Ó¨S»¡¡u¦Û¤v¶}µo¡v¡A¥i¨£§Þ³NÁÙ¬OÄÝ©ó¨ä¥¦¡u¥ý¶i°ê®a¡vªº! ¤Þ¥Ó¨ì§Ú¤Wz:MOTO¨ì¤¤°ê¬ü¤é¤£¾á¤ß,¥xÁZ¹qÁp¹qn¨ì¤¤°ê¬ü¤é¾á¤ßªº¬Æ¦Ü¬£¤H¨ì¥xÆW´£¥X³ÌÄY«ªºÄµ§i,¬Æ¦Üĵ§i¦Ò¼{°±¤î¥¼¨Ó§ó·s§Þ³N,(¸ÔÆ[¤W¥þ¤å) ·í§Þ³NÄÝ©ó¨ä¥¦¥ý¶i°ê®aªº¬ü¤é,¥²¶·¤½µM¤z¹w¥xÆW¼t°Ó¦è¶iªº³æ¯Â°Ó·~¦æ¬°®É,¥xÆW¥i¥H¤£¥Î¾á¤ß¶Ü? ²³æ»¡,¥ô¦ó§Þ³NÀu¦H»P§_,¦ýÁ`Âk¬O¥²»Ýn¤@³¡¾÷±ñ·í¥Í²£¥¥x. ¬ü¤éªººA«×¤]«Ü©úÅã,¤]¤£¥Î°µ¤°»ò°Ê§@,¥u»Ýn¥Í²£¥¥x¸T¤î¿é¤J¥xÆW´N°÷¤F,.ºÞ§A¥xÆW¥Í²£§Þ³N¦³¦h°ª,¤Ö¤F³o³¡¾÷±ñ,¥xÆWªº§Þ³N´N³q³qÂk¹s,¨S¥Î¤F. |
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 03:57 | |
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Lancu ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 08:33 | |
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PFCA ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 09:46 | |
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Äé³» ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 10:09 | |
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¤¤¦@°ê¥H´¹¤ù°ê²£¬°»ç»¤¨Ï¥xÆW¼t°Ó¦è¶i§ë¸ê, Áp¹q ¥x¿n¹q ¤@¨Ó¬O¬°¤F¥d¦ì·m¤¤°ê´¹¤ùªº³æ, ¥t¤@¤è±Á×§K¤¤°ê´¹¤ùªº³æ¨Ñ¾i¨Ï¤¤°ê¤¤ªäµ¥´¹¶ê¼t§¤¤j¶i¦Ó§C»ù·m¨ä¥Lq³æ¯}Ãa¥«³õ¯´§Ç, ³Ì«á«h¬O¬°¥xÆW¹L®ð³]³Æ (2.5·L¦Ì or lower) §ä³Ì¦nªº¥X¸ô(§é§@ªÑ¥»§ë¸ê¤¤°ê³]¼t), ¦b°Ó¨¥°Ó, µL¥i«p«D . ¦b¥xÆW¾ãÅé¥ß³õ«oµL¤Ó¤j¥¿±·N¸q. t±¼vÅT«h©úÅã©ö¨£. |
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 11:23 | |
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PFCA¥S¡A >>¥x¿n¹q¬O±i©¾¿Ñ¡A¤£¬O±iºaµo¡C ¦hÁ«ü¥¿! >>¬ü°ê¬F©²¹ï°ª¬ì§Þªº¿é¥XºÞ¨î»·¤ñ»OÆWÄY®æ(¬°¤F¬ü°ê¤Hªº§Q¯q)¡A©Ò¥H¤£¯à©ñ¥ô°Ó¤HÀH¤ß©Ò±ý¡C °ò¥»¤W¬O¥¿½T,¦ý¥i¤£¬O»¡¸T´N¸T¡C¦pªG¬O°ê¨¾¤u·~ªº¸Ü¡A¬F©²ÁÙ»Ýn¸É¶K·~ªÌªº·l¥¢¡C¦pªGÄÝ©ó¾÷±K§Þ³Nªº¸Ü¡A¬F©²ÁÙn°ê·|¦P·N¤~¥i¡C´«¥y¸Ü»¡¡A¬ü°ê¬F©²¥i¨SÅv¤On¦Û¤vªº¥ø·~¦YÁ«¡C ¥t¥~¡A¥xÆWªº©Ò¿×°ª¬ì§Þ¬O¯uªº°ª¬ì§Þ¶Ü?pc¦³ÃöªºµwÅé©PÃä²£«~¡A¸ò¥»¨S¦³¤@¶µ¬O¯uªº©Ò¿×°ª¬ì§Þ¡C |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 11:27 | |
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¦pªG«ó¬F©²¯à°÷¯uªº¡yÄYÃg°½¶]¡z¡A¨Ì·Ó¡y¨â©¤¤H¥Á©xÃö«Y±ø¨Ò¡z¡A¹ï¥Ø«e¹Hªk¥ô¾©ó¤¤ªä.§»¤Oªº¼Æ¦Ê¦W¤uµ{®v³B¸m¡An¨D´ÁÂ÷¶}¡A³o¨â®a´¹¶ê¼t´N±¾±¼¤F. ¹ï¶i¦æ¤¤ªºÁp¹qĬ¦{©MÄ¥¤]¦³±þÂûäêµUªº®ÄªG. ³o¤~¬O¹ï¥xÆW¹ï¥x¿n¹q³Ì¦nªº³Ì¦³§Qªº. ¤]¦]¬°´î¤Ö¤¤ªä.§»¤Oªº¨Ñµ¹¶q¡A¹ï¥xÆW±q´¹¶ê¨ì«Ê¸Ë¨ì´ú¸Õ³£¥i¥H¼W¥[´N·~¤H¼Æ¡A¦P®É©PÃ䪺ªA°È¦pªÅ¹B¬Æ¦Ü¤º»Ý®ø¶O³£¦³À°§U. °_½X¦³¤¤d¤H´N·~. ¦Ü©ó¦^¥xªº¤uµ{®v¤£·T¨S¦³¤u§@µL¶·¤Ó¹L¼{¤F. ¬Æ¦Ü¥L̦³¨Ç¤H¨S¤u§@§@³£Á٥ͬ¡Àu´ìªº«Ü. |
Äé³» ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/08 11:37 | |
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Simon ¤j®v >>>¦pªG«ó¬F©²¯à°÷¯uªº¡yÄYÃg°½¶]¡z¡A¨Ì·Ó¡y¨â©¤¤H¥Á©xÃö«Y±ø¨Ò¡z¡A¹ï¥Ø«e¹Hªk¥ô¾©ó¤¤ªä.§»¤Oªº¼Æ¦Ê¦W¤uµ{®v³B¸m¡An¨D´ÁÂ÷¶}¡A³o¨â®a´¹¶ê¼t´N±¾±¼¤F. ¹ï¶i¦æ¤¤ªºÁp¹qĬ¦{©MÄ¥¤]¦³±þÂûäêµUªº®ÄªG.
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Lancu¥S¡A ¦pªG¥xÆW¤µ¤Ñ¦³¹³¬ü°ê©Î¤é¥»ªº¤ô·Ç(¦UÓ¤è±),¨º§Ú´N§¹¥þ¦P·N§Aªº»¡ªk.¥xÆW¤µ¤Ñªº²{ª¬¹G±o§Ṳ́£±o¤£¡¨§Ù«æ¥Î§Ô¡¨¤F, ´«¥y¸Ü»¡¥u¦³©Ó»{¤@¨Ç¤£¦p·Nªº¨Æ¹ê, ¤~¯à°µ¨Æ. ¨Ò¤l¥un¬Ý®Ö¥|ªºµo®i´N¥i¤F¸Ñªü«óªº¦³®ðµL¤O. ÁöµM§Ú̳d¤§¤Á, ¦ý¬O½Ð¤£n§Ñ¤F§Ú̬O·R¤§²`¤~¨Ó³dªº.¤U±ªº°Q½×¨Ã¤£¬O§Ú·Qµý©ú§A»¡ªº¹ï¤£¹ï, ¦Ó¬O¥u·Q«ü¥X§Ú̬ݪk¤£¦Pªº¦a¤è. §A©ÒÁ|ªº¹ï¥j¤Ú©M¥_Áú¸T¹B¸ò§Ú̩ҽͪº¤K¦T´¹¶ê¦è²¾¬O¤£¬Û¦Pªº¼h¦¸¡C¬ü°ê©Î¤é¥»¤½¥qªº¸T¹B¥u¬O¤Ö°µ¤@¨Ç¥Í·N¦Ó¤w¡A¨Ã¤£¼vÅT¨ì¨º¨Ç¤½¥qªº¥Í¦s¡C¥x¿n¹qªº¦è²¾¡A¨Ã¤£¬On¸ò¤¤°ê°µ¥Í·N¡A¦Ó¬On§Q¥Î¤¤°êªº¸ê·½¡A¨Ó°§C¦¨¥»¡A¶i¦Ó©M¥@¬É¨ä¥¦°ê®a°µ¥Í·N¡C¹ï¥x¿n¹q¨Ó»¡¡A¥i¤£¬O¤Ö°µ¥Í·N³o»ò²³æ¡C·íµM§A¥i¥H»¡¡A¥x¿n¹qÀ³¸ÓÄ묹¡A¥¦Á«¥»¬¡¸Ó¡C§Ú¥u¬O¤£ÃÙ¦¨³oºØ¤ßºA¦Ó¤w¡C ¤é¥»§Ú¤£¤F¸Ñ. ¦b¬ü°ê¬F©²¨Ã¤£¯à¥s¥ô¤@®a¤½¥q¤£ÁÈ¿ú, ¦]¬°¥L̪º¾Ëªk«O»Ù¤H¥Á¦³¿Ñ¦Û¨ºÖ§QªºÅv¤O. ¹ï¤@¨âÓ°ê®aªº¸T¹B, ³q±`¼vÅT¤£¤j, ¤j®a¼Ö±o°t¦X. ¤£¹L¬ü°ê¦b´X¦~«e,³q¹LÁp¨¹©Ò³q¹L¥ô¦Xªk«ß, Áp¨¹n¦Û´X·Ç³Æ¹wºâ¨Ó¤ä¥I. ¦³¬°ªº¬F©²¬O´À¤H¥Á¸Ñ¨M°ÝÃD. ¦Ó¤£¬O³æ¯Â¦a¨î¤H¥Á. ¹ï¤¤°êªº¥ß³õ¡A§Úµ´¹ï¬O¯¸¦b¥xÆW³oÃä¡C¥u¬On«ç¼Ë°µ¤~¬O¹ï¥xÆW¦n¡A§Ú̦³¤£¦Pªº¬Ýªk¡C¦³¨Ç¤H»{¬°¤£¸ò¤¤°ê©¹¨Ó¡A¬O¤@ºØ¦Û½Ã¤§¹D¡C§Ú¦³¤£¦Pªº¬Ýªk¡A§Ú»{¬°¹ï¤¤°ê³¬Ãö¦Û¦u¡Aˤ£¦p¦³«×ªº¿n¶°¶}©ñ¡A¹ï¥xÆW§ó¦³¦n³B¡C ¦b»P¤¤°êªº¹ï§Ü¤¤¡A®ø·¥¦a¤£»P¨Ó©¹¡A¤£¦p¿n·¥¦a¥ß¥Î¤¤°êªº¸ê·½¬°¤v¥Î¡C·íµM¤¤°ê¦³¥¦¦Û¤vªº¦p·Nºâ½L¡A¨S¦³¤H»¡³o¬O«Ü®e©öªº¡C¦ýì«h¤W¡A¶}©ñ©M¿n·¥¤ñ¸û¦³§Q¡C¤Ï¥¿¨Æ¹ê¬O¤w¸g¶}©ñ¤@¤j³¡¥÷¤F¡C»P¨ä¦b°Q½×n¤£n¶}©ñ,¤£¦p°Q½×«ç¼Ë¶}©ñ¤~¬O¦³§Q¡C ¦³¼Æ¦ìºô¤Í»{¬°¶}©ñ°ª¬ì§Þªº¤u³õ¦è²¾¹ï¥xÆW¤£§Q, °ÝÃD¬O§Ú¨S¬Ý¨ì»{¦óÃÒ¾Ú¨Óµý©ú³o¤@ÂI. ¥Ø«e©Ò¦Cªº¯ÊÂI, ¦b§Ú¬Ý¨Ó¤¤°ê³£·|³o¼Ë°µ, ¤£ºÞ¥xÆWn¤£n¶}©ñ. ¤W¦¸§Ú¬Ý¨ìªº¸ê®Æ»¡¥xÆW¦b¤¤°ê¦³30¸U®a¤u³õ,³o»¡©ú«Ü¦h¥x°Ó¤w¸g¦è²¾¤F. ¦P®É¥xÆW2002¦~ªº¥~¶×¦s©³¤ñ2001©M2000³£¦³¼W¥[,³o§ó»¡©ú¥x°Ó¬O¦³§â¿ú®³¦^¨Ó. ·íµM§Ú¦P·N¥xÆW¤u¤H¬O¦è²¾ªº¨ü®`ªÌ, ¤£¹L³o¬O¥t¤@Ó½×ÃD. §Ú¦V¨Ó¤£»{¬°¤¤°ê¬O§Ú̪º°ÝÃD¡A§Ú»{¬°§Ṳ́º³¡¹ï°êÅé»{¦Pªº¤£¤@P¤~¬O°ÝÃD¡C¥Ø«e¤£ºÞ¬O½Ö·í¬F, ³£µLªk¤£¹ï¨Æ¹ê§CÀY, ì¦]´N¬O¥Ø«eªº¬Fªv¥O¤H¦³¤OÃø¬I. ·í¤H¤H³£¬Oµs¸é®É, «ç»ò§ì? ¥Î§Aªº¼w°êªB¤Íªº¨Ò¤l¨Ó½Í¡A¥L¬O«Ü¦³¹D¼wªº¡C°ÝÃD¬O¥L¤£¬O°ß¤@ªº¼w°ê¤H¡A¥L¤£°µ§Oªº¼w°ê¤H°µ¡C§Aªº¼w°êªB¦³®£©È¤]¤£¾A¦Xª±¬Fªv, ¥L¥u¬O»{¬°¦Û¤v¯¸¦b¯u²zªº¤@Ãä, ¦Ó¤£·|§´¨ó. ¬K¬î¾Ô°ê®É¥N, ºÞ¥ò¦b½×Àj¨û¤ú®É, ´N¤w¸g§â¾Þ¦u²M¥Õ¦Ó¤£ª¾ÅÜ¥©ªº¤H¦C¬°¤£¾A±q¬Fªº¨å§Î. ¬Fªv¨Ã¤£¬O¥Î¨Ó°µºë¯«×¾i¥Î¡A¬Fªv¤]¤£ºÞ¤Hªº¹D¼w¡C¬Fªv¥u¥Î¨Ó½T¥ß°ê®a¤¤¨C¤@¦æ·~ªº¹CÀ¸³W«h¡C¦pªG¹CÀ¸³W«h¤½¥¡A§Ú¬Û«H¨CÓ¥xÆW¥ø·~®a³£¼Ö·N´L¦u¡C°ÝÃD¬O¹CÀ¸³W«h¦³¨S¦³¤½¥©O? ¬O¤£¬O¥ý¦³¤½¥ªº¹CÀ¸³W«h¦A¨Ó°õ¦æ¤ñ¸û¹ï©O? ³o¬OÂû©ÎÂû³J¨ºÓ¥ýªº°ÝÃD. ·íµM§A§Ú¬Ýªkªº®t²§, ´N¬O¨Ó¦Û©ó¦¹. ¹ï§Ú¨Ó»¡, ¥xÆW¨Sµª¨ì¯u¥¿¥Á¥D¤§«e, ¥Á¶iÄÒ©Ò°µ©Ò¬°¥un¤£¤Ó¹L¥÷, §Ú³£·|¤ä«ù. ¦]¬°§Ú¾á¤ßªº¬O¨S¥Á¶iÄÒ, ¥xÆW·|Åܱo§ó®t. |
Lancu ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/10 08:06 | |
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¡@¡@¡¨¤H¥Á¡¨¡@¤£¬O¤@Ó¤H¡A¥L̪º°ÝÃD¤£¬O¤¬¬Û¨S¦³¥Ù¬Þªº¡D ¡@¡@·í¤H¥Á¤¤¬Y¨Ç¤Hªº§Q¯q©M¥t¤@³¡¥÷¤H¥Áªº§Q¯q¤£¤@P®É¡A¡¨¦³¬°ªº¬F©²¡¨ ¡@¡@¤¤°êµ¹¥h¤¤°êªº¥xÆW¤H¯SÅv¡A¨º¬O¥ĻƱæ¥H«á¯à±o¨ì¦^¦¬¡A¹w´Á¥þÅé ¢²¡D§A¼g¡G¡¨¬ü°ê¬F©²¨Ã¤£¯à¥s¥ô¤@®a¤½¥q¤£ÁÈ¿ú¡¨ ¡@¡@³o¬O§áÂà±M®×¬°ªx®×ªº»¡ªk¡Dªx½×¦Ó¨¥¡A·íµM¨S¦³¬F©²·|¥s¤H®a¤£nÁÈ¿ú¡A ¡@¡@´N±M®×¥j¤Ú¦Ó¨¥¡A¥j¤ÚªºCigar¦b¬ü°ê«Ü·m¤â¡A¦ý¬O¬ü°ê¬F©²ÁÙ¬O¤£ã ¡@¡@¤¤°ê¬O¥xÆWªº¼Ä°ê¡A¹ï±Ó·P°ª¬ì§Þªº½ü¤J¤¤°ê¡A¥xÆW¦ÛµMn¦³¦Ò¶q¡D ¡@¡@¹ï¤¤°êªº°ª¬ì§Þ¿é¥XºÞ¨î¡A¬O¬ü°ê¬°¥Dªº¦è¤è°ê®aªº¬Fµ¦¡A¤£¬O¥xÆW¤E©Ç¡D ¢³¡D³Ì¯îÂÕªº¬O¡A§A¼g¡G ¡@¡@¡@¡@¡¨¥xÆW2002¦~ªº¥~¶×¦s©³¤ñ2001©M2000³£¦³¼W¥[, ¡@¡@¦n¹³¥xÆWªº¥~¶×¨Ó·½¥u¦³¤¤°ê¦üªº¡D³o§¹¥þ¹H¤Ï¨Æ¹ê¡G ¡@¡@¸gÀÙ¤é³ø¢±¢¯¢¯¢±¦~¢±¤ë¢°¢¸¤é¡G ¡@¡@¡@¡@¡¨·Ó«e¦~¤W¥«¤WÂd¤½¥q¸êª÷¶×¥X¶×¶ipºâ¡A¥§¡¨C¶×¥X100¤¸¸êª÷ ¡@¡@¥xÆWªº¥~¶×¨Ó·½¤@ª½¬O¤]¤´µM¬O¹ï¬ü°ê©M¼Ú¬wªº¥~¾P¡A¢±¢¯¢¯¢±¦~¥xÆW ¡@¡@¤¤¥¡ªÀ¢±¢¯¢¯¢±¦~¢°¢¯¤ë¢±¢²¤é¡G ¢´¡D§A¼g¡G¡¨¹ï¤¤°ê³¬Ãö¦Û¦u¡Aˤ£¦p¦³«×ªº¿n¶°¶}©ñ¡A¹ï¥xÆW§ó¦³¦n³B¡¨ ¡@¡@³o¤@Äæ¤¤¨S¦³¤H¥D±i¡¨¹ï¤¤°ê³¬Ãö¦Û¦u¡¨§a¡H¤£¥h¤¤°ê§ë¸ê¡A¨Ã¤£ªí¥Ü ¢µ¡D§A¼g¡G¡¨·í¤H¤H³£¬Oµs¸é®É, «ç»ò§ì?¡¨ ¡@¡@§Ú¤£ª¾¹D¡A§A¬°¤°»ò»{¬°¥xÆW¦³¡¨¤H¤H³£¬Oµs¸é¡¨ªº²{¶H¡H¥h¤¤°êªº¤H¡A ¡@¡@¦¹¥~¡A§Ú¤W¤å¼g¤F¡A±i©¾¿Ñ¹ï¤K¦T´¹¶ê¥h¤¤°êªºÄ³ÃD¡A¡¨¥Lªº°Ñ¤©¬O¾A¶qªº¡¨¡D ¡@¡@§Ú¼g¹L¤F¡A¶}©ñ¤K¦T´¹¶ê¡A¡¨³Ì´Æ¤âªº¬O¡A¥xÆW¹ï¥@¬Éµo¥Xªº°T®§¬O¤°»ò¡H ¡@¡@«ÂI¦b¥xÆWªº°ê»Ú°}Àç©w¦ì¡A¦Ó¤£¬O¥ß¨¬©ó§â¥h¤¤°êªº¤H·í§@¡¨µs¸é¡¨¡G ¡@¡@¦Û¥Ñ®É³ø¢±¢¯¢¯¢±¦~¢²¤ë¢°¢¶¤é¡G ¡@¡@¡@¡@¬ü°Ñ°|«e¥~©e·|¥D®u¡G´¹¶êµn³° ¶Õ±N¶Ë®`¥xÆW
¡@¡@¡@¡@¬ü°ê°È°|¡G¥xÆW´¹¶êµn³° ¶·²Å¦X¬ü§Þ³N²¾Âà³W©w ¡@ ¡@¡@¡@¡@¥xÆW³¡¤À·~ªÌpµe±N¤K¦T´¹¶ê²¾©¹¤j³°¡A¡D¡D¡]¤å§R¡^¡A¤w¸g¤Þ°_¬ü°ê ¡@¡@¡@¡@¡D¡D¡D¡]¤å§R¡^¡D¡D¬ü°ê¦Û¤@¤E¤E¤»¦~ñ¸p¥Ë¸t¯Ç¨ó©w«á¡A´N¶}©lºÞ¨î ¡@¡@¦Û¥Ñ®É³ø¢±¢¯¢¯¢±¦~¢²¤ë¢±¢²¤é¡G ¡@¡@¡@¡@¤é¥»¸g²£¬Ù©xû¨Ó¥x Ãö¤Á´¹¶ê®× ¡@¡@¡@¡@¡D¡D¡D¡]¤å§R¡^¡D¡D¡D°ê¶T§½¤º³¡¨p¤UÃÒ¹ê«Y¦b¶g¥|±µ«Ý³o§å¥~»«¡C ¡@¡@¡@¡@¡D¡D¡]¤å§R¡^¡D¡D¡D¤é¤è¤]ªí¥Ü¡A¤¤°ê¤j³°²{¦b»P¤Ú°ò´µ©Zµ¥¦h°ê¬Ò ¢¶¡D§A¼g¡G¡¨§Aªº¼w°êªB¦³®£©È¤]¤£¾A¦Xª±¬Fªv,¡D¡D¡D¡D¬Fªv¬O¡D¡D¡D¡¨ ¡@¡@¥L̬O°Ó¤H¡A´N¹³¤ý¥Ã¼y¡A±i©¾¿Ñµ¥¤H¤@¼Ë¡A§Ú¤]¥u®³¥L̨өM¥xÆW°Ó¤H ¡@¡@§Ú¨S¦³®³¥L̨өM¥xÆW¬Fªv¤Hª«¨Ã½×¡D¬°¤°»ò§A§â¥¦§è¨ì¬Fªv©O¡H ¢·¡D¥xÀs§g¡A§Ú¹ï§Aªº¦^¤å³£«Ü»{¯uªº¼g¡A¦b½g´T³\¥i¤º¡A¤]¾¨¶q¤Þ¥Î¸ê®Æ»¡©ú¡D ¡@¡@§Úªº¬Ýªk¤w¸g¼g±o«Ü²M·¡¡A¦³¿³½ìºô¤Í¤]¥i¥H¦b¦¹Äæ¦Û¦æ²ÓŪ¡A¨Ã¦Û¦æ§PÂ_ ¡@¡@§Ú¼g¹L¡A§Ú¤£¥´ºâ§ïÅܧAªº¬Ýªk¡A¦]®É¶¡ªºÃö«Y¡A¹ï§Aªº¦^¤å´N¦¹¥´¦í¡D |
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/10 09:42 | |
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Mark ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/22 05:56 | |
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Is Abian still very much obsessed with his promise of [¸gÀٲΦX] then[¬Fªv²Î¦X] with China? Or is he trying to carve out a magical scenario of Taiwan being capable of economically uniting into China while politically maintaining independence? Chips issue could be the litmus telling us all what he intends to do. ============================================================ §@ªÌ: traitor4 / johnny ¦b¥b¾ÉÅé´º®ð¨Ñ¹L©ó¨D©|³B©ó¨¦©³¤§»Ú¡AÁp¹q»P¥x¿n¹q¦b¥xÆW¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¤Wªº²£¯à§Q¥Î²v¥u¦³¤»¦¨¥ª¥k¡A¤Q¤G¦T¼t§ó§C¡A¬ü°ê¶W·L¢Ï¢Û¢Ò»PÁp¹q¤Q¤G¦T¼t¦X§@p¹º¤]³Û°±? °õ¬FÄÒ«æ©ó¶}©ñ¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¨ì¤¤°ê¬O¦ó¹D²z??? ¤¤ªä¦b¤¤°ê¤GÓ¼t¦¤w¸g»\¦n¡AW©ó§Þ³N¤£°÷¨S¦³q³æ¡A¥u¦nÂà§@¢Ò¢à¢Ï¢Û·m¤U´å¥Í·N¡A¦Ó§»¤O¦]¦³¥ý¨£¤§©ú¡AÁöµM¼t¤w¸g»\¦n¡A¾÷¾¹³]³ÆÁÙ¬O¤£´±»´Á|§Ñ°Ê²¾¤J¡CÁp¹q¦b¤¤°êªº¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¥ç¤w¸g§¹¦¨¡A¤]¦]q³æ¤£¨¬¡A¥ú¬O¨C¤ëÅu´£ªº§é¦¨¥»¡A´NÅýÁp¹q¦Y¤£®ø¡A§ë¸ê¤H¤]¸òµÛ¾Ì¥Õt¾á¤£¦X²zªº§ë¸êÁ«·l¡C ¤G¤¤»Mb DDR [Double Data Rate] ²{³f»ù¤j¶^¥|.¥|¢H¡A¨CÁû¨Ó¨ì¤.¤G¤»¬ü¤¸¡A§Y±N¶i¦æ¤¬ü¤¸Ãö¥d«O½Ã¾Ô¡A¥[¤W°ê»ÚDRAM¤j¼t¹ï¤µ¦~²£·~´º®ð¦hªí¤£¼ÖÆ[¡A¥~°Ó¤]¯É¯Ép¹º´î²£¸ò¶i¡CºØºØ¤£§QDRAM¥«³õÀÙ»ù®æ±µ¿æ¦Ó¦Ü¡A¾ÉPDRAM»ù®æ¥þ±¦^ÀÉ¡C¶}©ñ¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¬O[¸gÀٲΦX]ªº°µ³Ì«á¤uµ{!¸gÀٲΦX¤uµ{Ãe¤j»Ý®Éªø¤[¡A¤@¥¹¸gÀٲΦX¤j¥\§i¦¨¬Fªv²Î¦X¥u¬O¤@±i¯È¡C°õ¬FÄÒ¦¹®É¦¹¨è«æ©ó¶}©ñ¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¡A¬O¤£¬O¬°¤F¸ê·½¤¤°ê§Þ³N¡A¥H¹F¨ì²Î¦X½×ªº¥D±i¥ý¸gÀٲΦX¦Ó«á§¹¦¨¬Fªv²Î¦Xªº³±¿Ñ??? ¨Ì·Ó¡u¦b¤¤°ê¦a°Ï§ë¸ê´¹¶ê¼t¼f¬d¤ÎºÊ·þ§@·~nÂI¡v¡A¥Ó½Ð®×À³¥Ñ¸gÀÙ³¡²Õ¦¨¸ó³¡·|¼f¬d¤ÎºÊ·þ¤p²Õ¶i¦æ¼f®Ö¡A¸Ó¤p²Õ¥Ñ¸gÀÙ³¡³¡ªø¾á¥ô¥l¶°¤H¡C ¥t¥~¡A§@·~nÂIÁÙ©ú©w¥Ó½Ð¤H´£¥X¥Ó½Ð®É¶·¨ã³Æ¤U¦C6¶µ±ø¥ó¡G ¥Ó½Ð¤H¨ú±o§ë¸ê³\¥i«á¡A¶·µø¦b¥xÆW§ë¸ê³]¥ß¤§12¦T´¹¶ê¼t¤w¹F¸gÀÙ³W¼Ò¤§¶q²£¶¥¬q¡]¶·¥Ñ¸gÀÙ³¡¸u½Ð¸Ó»â°ì¤§«ÈÆ[¤½¥¿±M·~¤H¤h²Õ¦¨¡u²£·~±M®a¤p²Õ¡v¡Aºî¦X´º®ð¡B¦¨¥»¡B²£È¡B¨}²vµ¥¦]¯À¤©¥H§PÂ_¡^¡A¤è±o¦V¸gÀÙ³¡¶T©ö§½¥Ó½Ð±M®×¿é¥X³\¥i¡A±N¨ä8¦T¥H¤U´¹¶êű³y¼t¾÷¾¹³]³Æ²¾¾÷¦Ü¤j³°¦a°Ï¡C [µù] DDR¬O¤@Ïú双¼Æ¾Ú¶Ç¿é¼Ò¦¡·s内¦s§Þ³N¡A^¤å¡§Double Data Rate¡¨ªºÁY¼g¡A²z½×¤WY»P¦P³t²v¡]Ū©Î¼g¡^ªºDDR内¦s©MSDR内¦s¬Û¤ñ¡A©Ê¯à¶W¥X¤@¿¡A²¦Ó¨¥¤§´N¬O100MHZDDR=200MHZSDR¡C |
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/22 08:03 | |
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§Ú§â¡u§@ªÌ: traitor4 / johnny¡vªº¶K¤å±ø¦C«ÂI¥X¨Ó¡AÅý§Ų́Ӭã¨s¬ã¨s¦è²¾¤K¦T´¹¶êªº§Q¹ú¡C¤Uz¬õ¦â¦rÅé¬Oì¤å: ¤@:¥b¾ÉÅé´º®ð¨Ñ¹L©ó¨D©|³B©ó¨¦©³¤§»Ú ¤G:Áp¹q»P¥x¿n¹q¦b¥xÆW¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¤Wªº²£¯à§Q¥Î²v¥u¦³¤»¦¨¥ª¥k ¤T:Áp¹q»P¥x¿n¹q¦b¥xÆW¤Q¤G¦T¼t²£¯à§Q¥Î²v§ó§C ¥|:¬ü°ê¶W·L¢Ï¢Û¢Ò»PÁp¹q¤Q¤G¦T¼t¦X§@p¹º¤]³Û°± ¤:¤¤ªä¦b¤¤°ê¤GÓ¼t¦¤w¸g»\¦n¡AW©ó§Þ³N¤£°÷¨S¦³q³æ¡A¥u¦nÂà§@¢Ò¢à¢Ï¢Û·m¤U´å¥Í·N ¤»:§»¤O¼t¤w¸g»\¦n¾÷¾¹³]³ÆÁÙ¬O¤£´±»´Á|§Ñ°Ê²¾¤J ¤C:Áp¹q¦b¤¤°êªº¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¥ç¤w¸g§¹¦¨¡Aq³æ¤£¨¬ ¤K:°ê»ÚDRAM¤j¼t¹ï¤µ¦~²£·~´º®ð¦hªí¤£¼ÖÆ[¡A¥~°Ó¤]¯É¯Ép¹º´î²£¸ò¶i¡C ¦b³oºØ±¡ªp¤U¡A§Ú¹ê¦b¦Ê«ä¤£¸Ñ¬°¦ó¥x¿n¹qn¥Ó½Ð¤K¦T´¹¶ê¦è²¾?Ãø¨ì¦è²¾¤¤°ê¦³¤°»ò¦n³B¬O§Ú̬ݤ£¥X¨Óªº? |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/22 13:51 | |
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dafemren ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 01:17 | |
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please read following news ¼w°Ó^¸â±N§Þ³N²¾Âà¤j³° ¡@ ¡@¡i¤¤¥¡ªÀ»´ä¤G¤Q¤@¤é¹q¡j»´ä«H³ø¤µ¤Ñµoªíªº¤@½g¤ÀªR¤å³¹«ü¥X¡A¼w°ê¤j«¬´¹¤ù»s³y°Ó^¸â¨M©w¦V¤¤°ê¤j³°Âಾ´¹¤ù»s³y§Þ³N¡A©úÅã¬O¦]¬°¨ü¨ì«nÁú¤T¬P¹q¤l¤Î¥xÆW¥b¾ÉÅé¼t°Ó¤é¯q¼W¥[ªº«Â¯Ù¡C ¡@ ¡@¸Ó½g¤ÀªR¥þ²y´¹¤ù¥«³õªº¤å³¹«ü¥X¡A¥h¦~©³¥@¬É¹q¤l³ø³ø¾É¡A^¸â»P¤j³°¤¤ªä°ê»Ú¥b¾ÉÅé»s³y¤½¥q¡]SMIC¡^ñq¤@¥÷§Þ³N¨óij¡A³W©w^¸â§â¥»¨¶}µoªº¥b¾ÉÅéªù¹q¸ô¡]Gates¡^¶ZÂ÷¹sÂI¤@¥|·L¦Ì¥Í²£§Þ³NÂಾµ¹³o®a¤j³°¤½¥q¡A©¹«á±N¶i¤@¨BÂಾ¥ý¶iªº¹sÂI¤@¤@·L¦Ì§Þ³N¡A¨Ã«OÃÒ°ö°V¤j³°¤Hû¡C ¡@ ¡@¤å³¹ªí¥Ü¡A³oºØ°µªk¹HI¤F¼Ú¬ü¼t®a¤G¤Q¦~¨Ó¤@¦V¤£§â°ª¬ì§ÞÂಾµ¹¨È¬w¤HªººD¨Ò¡C©Ò¥H¡A^¸âªº¨M©w¥ß§Y¤Þ¨Ó¼Ú¬ü¦P¦æªº§åµû¡A«ü¥¦§Ñ°O¤F¥»¨ªº¦ì¸m¡A§â³oºØ§Þ³N§i¶D¤F¤¤°ê¤H¡F³o¨Ç§åµûªÌ¥]¬A·Nªk¥b¾ÉÅé¡]STMicroelectronics¡^ªº±M®aPhilippeDauvin¡C ¡@ ¡@¾Ú¤ÀªR¡A^¸â©Ò¥H¤£±¤¤@¤Á¦V¤j³°¤½¥qÂಾ´¹¤ù»s³y§Þ³N¡A¡u©úÅã¨ü¨ì¤T¬P©M¥xÆW¥b¾ÉÅé¼t®a¤é¯qÃe¤jªº«Â¯Ù¡F¬°«O«ù¥»¨¦b¥þ²y°O¾ÐÅé«e¤T¤j¦ì¸m¡A¥¦¢©óµL©`¡A¤£ÅU¼Ú¬ü¦P¦æªº«ü³d¡A¹ê¦æ¦b¤¤°ê¤U¤jª`¡v¡C I am in semiconductor industry in singapore. You know how many chinese engineers work in Charted, Tech, NS, AM, UMC and TSMC factory in singapore? 0.25 um is not the barrier to China, We are studying 0.09 um now. when iwe got training, the teachers from usa are also chinese |
®ö¼é ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 02:32 | |
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®ö¼é ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 02:48 | |
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¿N¿ú¤ñÁɶ}©lÅo ²q½Ö·|¥ý¿N§¹..¬OUMC? TSMC? CHARTED? THE BURNING SPEED IS GETTING UP, PLAYERS MUST COLLECT MONEY FROM TW FASTER THAN EVER OR GO DIE SOONER. EXCEPT SAMSUNG, EVERY ONE IS CUTTUNG HIS CAPEX IN 2003,INTEL INCLUDED.. |
¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 02:56 | |
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¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 03:06 | |
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¬h¾ö¥S¡A ¨º§An¥xÆWªº¥b¾ÉÅé©M¹q¤l¤½¥q¦p¦ó¤ÏÀ³?§¤¥H«ÝÀÅ? ½Ð°O¦í¡A¥xÆW©Ò¿×°ª¬ì§Þ¤j³£¬O¥N¤u¦Ó¤w!«ÜµL©`¡A¬O¤£¬O? |
¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 03:29 | |
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¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 07:18 | |
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>>¼w°Ó^¸â±N§Þ³N²¾Âà¤j³° ¬Ý¼Ë¤l¤K¦T´¹¶êµn³°¬OµLªkÁ×§K¤F! >>¾ó½¦¤â®M.¯¼Â´·~.¾c·~.¾i´Þ·~µ¥¬O°ª¬ì§Þ¶Ü? ³o¨Ç¥xÆW²±·¥¤@®Éªº²£·~¬O«ç»ò¦¡·Lªº ¦b°Ó¨¥°Ó¡A³o¨Ç²£·~³£¦b¥xÆW¦¡·L¡A¦ý¬O¦b¤¤°ê®³¨ì²Ä¤G¬K¡C¬°¤°»ò¨º¨Ç²£·~·|¦b¥xÆW¦¡·L©O?ì¦]«Ü²³æ¡A¨Ñ»Ý¤£¥¿Å¡C·í¥xÆW¸gªG¤G¤Q¦~ªº°ª¸gÀÙ¦¨ªø¡A¨CÓ¤H³£¦³¨É¨ü¨ì¦¨ªøªº¬üªG¡C¿ú¦³¤F¡A³q³f¦ÛµM´N¼êº¦¤F¡A¤u¸ê¦ÛµM´N¼W¥[¤F¡C»s³y¦¨¥»¤]¦ÛµM´N°ªº¦¤F¡Cªp¥B¥xÆW¤H¤h¤j¤Ò¤ß²z«Ü«¡A¨S¤H·Qn°µ²Ê¤u(©Î²Ó¤u)¡C§ä¤£¨ì¤u¤H¡A¦p§A¬O¤u¼t¦ÑªO¡A§An«ç»ò¿ì?¤u¸ê´£°ª¡A¦¨¥»¼W¥[¡A¤u¸ê¤£´£°ª¡A¨S¤Hn°µ¡C¥u¦n§â¤u¼t²¾¨ì¤¤°ê¤F¡C ¤Wzªº°ÝÃD¡A§A¯àn¬F©²¯à°µ¤°»ò¨Æ©O?°£¤F¥Î¬F©²ªº¤O¶q¡A¥Î¡u¸T¤î¥ø·~²¾¥X¡v³oºØª`©wn¥¢±Ñªº¬Fµ¦¥~¡AÁٯవ¤°»ò©O?®@?§A»¡À°§U¥ø·~¤É¯Å?§An¤@Ó¤ñ¥Á¶¡¥ø·~§ó¨S®Ä«ßªº¬F©²¨Ó´£¨Ñ¥ø·~¤è°w?¦³¥i¯à¶Ü?¦³³oºØ¤H¤~¡A¦´N¥X¨Ó¦Û¤v°µ¥ø·~¤F! ¥ø·~¦è²¾¡A¦³¥i¯à¾×¦í¶Ü?¤K¦T´¹¶ê¦pªG¤£±q¥xÆW¨Ó¡A¤¤°ê´N¤£¦æ¤F?®@¡A§A¤S»¡¤¤°ê¬O¼Ä¹ï°ê®a?¶â¡A¬O½Ö¦bҾɤ¤°ê¤£¬O¼Ä¹ï°ê®a?³o¥i¤£¬O¥Á¶iÄÒ¬F©²ªº¿ù¡C§A»¡¬O²Î´C?¨º´N§ðÀ»²Î´Cªü! ¹ï¤F,´N¬O¨º¨Ç«q°êªº²Î´C¨S§â¥¿½T°T®§¶Çµªµ¹¥Á²³¡A¤~³y¦¨¤µ¤Ñ¥xÆWªº¤ß¨¾¤£¨¬¦Ó¾É¦Ü¤K¤o´¹¶ê¥~²¾¡Cªü«óÁaµM·Q¤O®¾¨gÀÝ¡A¦ý¦b¥Á²³¤£Ãö¤ß¤§¤U¡A¥L¯à«ç¼Ë?¤£n§Ñ°O¡A¥L¦b¥x¥_¥«°µªº¨º»ò¦n¡A©Ò±o¨ìªº³ø¹S¬O¤°»ò?¡i¸¨¿ï¡jC!!! ³o¨Ç°ÝÃD¡AÅý¦ÆÂÅx¨Ó°µ¥u¦³¤Q¿§ó¥[¸vµL§Ò¼ª¡A¦Ó¦³¨Çºô¤ÍÁÙn¦]¬°³oºØì¦]¤£§ëªü«ó¤@²¼?¦]¬°ªü«ó°µªº¤£¥O§Aº¡·N¡A©Ò¥Hn¿ï¤@Ó§ó®tªº¤H¨Ó±Ð°V¥L?³oºØÅÞ¿èÁÙ¯u±o«ÜÃø²z¸Ñ! |
ºu¥Û ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 09:56 | |
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¤S¤@³õ¸gÀÙ¤g¥Û¬y¦b¥xÆWºu°Ê¤F? ¤j¶q¸êª÷¦è¶i¡AªÎ¤F¤¤°ê¸gÀÙ¡A«o½G¤F¥xÆW°ê¤O¡A ¤K¦T´¹¶ê¶}©ñu¤¤°ê§ë¸ê¤W¡A¬F©²¤£¬OµL¯à´N¬O¥¢Â¾¡A *********************************************************** --------¸gÀÙ¤g¥Û¬y¤Sºu°Ê¡I ¡·J¤å½÷ ¡@¨C¦^¦è¶i§ë¸ê·§j¡A¥xÆWªº¸gÀÙ´N¹³¾D³{¤@³õ¤g¥Û¬y¡A¤[¤[¤£¯à´_ì¡C¥@¬É´¹¶ê¥N¤uÀsÀY¡B¥xÆW´¹¶ê¤§Ä_¥x¿n¹qªº¤K¦T´¹¶ê¼t¡A¬F©²ì«h¦P·N©ñ¦æ¦è¶i¤¤°ê¡A¦³¦p¤@Áû¤j¥ÛÀY¤S¦bºu°Ê¤F¡A¥O¤H¾á¤ß¤S¬O¤@³õ¤g¥Û¬y¨aº×ªº¶}ºÝ¡I ¡@ ·í«e¥xÆW¸gÀÙ¤£®¶¡B¥¢·~²v°ªÃk¡A¥D¦]´N¬O¸êª÷¡B²£·~¡B§Þ³N¦è¶i¤¤°ê¡Aªñ¦~¨Ó¤@ªiªi¦è¶i·¡B¤¤°ê¼ö¡A§j±¼¤F¥xÆW¸gÀÙ¦¨ªøªº¬¡¤O¡A¯N°®¤F¥xÆW³Ò¤uªº´N·~¾÷·|¡A§lºÉ¥xÆW¸gÀÙµo®iªº¦å¯ß¡C ¡@ ¨Ì¾Ú¥¡¦æ³Ìªñ²Îp¡A¥x¸ê¦è¶i¦³¸ê®Æ¥i¬d¦ôªº±µªñ¤C¦Ê»õ¬ü¤¸¡A¦Ó¬d¤£¨ìªº¶Â¼Æ§ó¦h¡A¤£¤Ö¾ÇªÌ¦ôpÁ`¦@¬ù¬°¤@¤d¤¦Ê»õ¨ì¨â¤d»õ¬ü¤¸¡A¦]¦¹¡A¥xÆW¸êª÷¥~¬y¤¤°êªº¼Æ¦r¡A»P¥xÆW¥~¶×¦s©³¬Û·í¡A¥¼¨Ó§ó±N¶W¹L¡A³o¦b¥@¬É¸gÀÙ¥v¤W³£¬O¡uªÅ«e¡vªº¡A¤@¨Ç¤HÁÙ»¡¶}©ñ¤£°÷¡A®Ú¥»´N¬O¸C²´½M»¡¡A´ÛÄF¤H¥Á¡C ¡@ ¤j¶q¸êª÷¦è¶i¡AªÎ¤F¤¤°ê¸gÀÙ¡A«o½G¤F¥xÆW°ê¤O¡A¨Ò¦p¡A¥h¦~¤¤°êªº¸ê°T²£·~²£Èº«×¶W¹L¥xÆW¡A¦ý¨ä¤¤¤»¦¨¥H¤W¬O¥x°Ó¦b¤¤°ê§ë¸ê³Ð³yªº¡A¸gÀÙ¦è¶i³y¦¨¨â©¤¦¹®ø©¼ªøªº±¡¶Õ¡A¥¿¦pÁ³±Û«¬¯ë¨³³t´c¤Æ¡C ¡@ ¸gÀÙ®øªø¦bx¨Æ¤Wªº®ÄÀ³¡A¤]³vº¥Åã²{¡A¤¤°ê²{¥N¤ÆªZ¾¹ªº¥~ÁÊ»P¬ãµo¡A¦b¸gÀÙ¤O¤ä«ù¤U¡Aªñ¦~§Ö³t¶i®i¡A¤£¦ý«Â¯Ù¥xÆW°ê¨¾¦w¥þ¡A¤]¼vÅTªF¨È°Ï°ìéw¡C ¡@ ´N¥xÆW³Ì¤Á¨ªº¾D¹J¡A¤¤°ê³¡¸p¦bºÖ«Ø¡B¹ï·Ç¥xÆW¤H¥Áªº¥|¦Ê¦hªT¸¼u¡A¬Û·í³¡¤À¥¿¬O¨Ó¦Û¥x°Ó§ë¸ê¤¤°êªº¡u°^Äm¡v¡C³o§Î¦Pµ¹¤H®a¿ú»s³y¸¼u¨Ó«Â¯Ù¦Û¤v¡AÃø¹D¥xÆW¤H¬O³o¼Ëªº¦Û§Ú§@½î¡H ¡@ ¨¾¤î¸gÀÙ¤g¥Û¬y¡An±q¨¾¤î¥ÛÀYºu°Ê¶}©l¡A³o¬O¬F©²ªº³d¥ô¡A¦ý¦b¤K¦T´¹¶ê¶}©ñu¤¤°ê§ë¸ê¤W¡A¬F©²¤£¬OµL¯à´N¬O¥¢Â¾¡A®Ú¥»§Î¦P¬°¸gÀÙ¤g¥Û¬y±Àªi§UÄi¡I (§@ªÌJ¤å½÷¡A¸ê²`·s»D¤u§@ªÌ) (ÃôÃò¶°,¦Û¥Ñ®É³ø) |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 10:40 | |
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¥xÀs >>¼w°Ó^¸â±N§Þ³N²¾Âà¤j³° ½Ð¥ý°µ¥\½Ò§a. ¦P¼Ë¤K¦T¼t ¬Æ¦Ü©ó ¤Q¤G¦T¼t¡A¼Ð·Ç«~¦Û¤v¤½¥q²×ºÝ²£«~¥Îªº ¹³ Motorola ¤Ñ¬z¼tªº¡A¥Î¦bMotorola¤â¾÷¤W¡C ¹³¤¤ªä±i¦¼¨Ê¸ò¼w°Ó^¸â½Í DRam §Þ³N²¾Âà¬O¬°¤F¶ñ¸É²£¯à¥Î¡C ¥xÆWµ´¤j¦h¼Æªº°OªÌ³ø¾É¬OµLª¾ªº¥i¥H. |
ACE ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 10:42 | |
Re:¤K¦T´¹¶êµn³°¡A¬O·M©Î¬OºÆ¡H | |
China¡¦s Fabs Prepare for 0.18-micron Production by Craig Addison In recent months two of China¡¦s four 200 mm wafer fabs have indicated their intention to fabricate devices with linewidths of 0.18 micron. Given that high-tech export controls adhered to by the U.S., Japan and Europe under the Wassenaar Arrangement effectively prohibit Chinese chipmakers from producing anything under 0.25 micron, advanced fabs in China are obviously anticipating a relaxing of the rules in the near future. Shanghai-based Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. (SMIC) will license a 0.18-micron process for low-power SRAMs from Toshiba Corp., which is also its technology provider for 0.25-micron devices. It also will obtain a foundry-compatible 0.18-micron process from Singapore-based Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing Ltd., the world¡¦s No. 3 foundry. Yet another deal announced in February involves fabrication of 0.22- and 0.18-micron fast-cycle RAMs for Fujitsu. Further details of the agreements are under wraps because of the sensitive nature of advanced technology transfer to China. ¡§We will be able to say more about our 0.18 activities [by mid-year],¡¨ says Joseph Xie, senior director of marketing for SMIC. Hua Hong NEC Electronics Co. Ltd., which started in 1998 as a DRAM fab but has gradually shifted to foundry work over the past two years, also is itching to go to 0.18 micron. ¡§Our customers in China always ask us to start 0.18-micron products, especially for DVD, PC and mobile phone applications,¡¨ said Toshio Ohta, operations manager at the fab, which is 29 percent owned by NEC. ¡§We are requesting permission [from the Japanese government] for 0.18-micron production in China this year.¡¨ The remaining advanced fabs on the mainland don¡¦t appear to be in a hurry to follow. Motorola¡¦s fab in Tianjin is producing wafers at 0.35-micron linewidths and has received approval from U.S. authorities to use 0.25 micron. Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., another Shanghai-based foundry, is still under construction and won¡¦t be producing its first silicon until 2003. The equipment sets at the newest Chinese foundries are in many cases capable of producing 0.18-micron devices. However, it¡¦s unlikely that any of them would step over the line for fear of having sanctions imposed on future tool imports. While vendors that ship tools to China routinely receive export approval from their respective governments, not all equipment makers are affected. ¡§Critical [device] dimensions are determined by pattern generation, primarily by lithography and etching,¡¨ notes Peter R. Hanley, president of Novellus Systems. ¡§In contrast, thin-film deposition, clean and strip equipment is relatively insensitive to critical dimensions.¡¨ Thus Novellus, which isn¡¦t in lithography or etch, is less troubled by the restrictions. Official blessing for 0.18-micron production in China would provide certain vendors with a near-term opportunity to sell more of their high-end equipment. Given the behind-the-scenes activity at the Chinese foundries, it would seem that a loosening of the restrictions might be in the cards in the second half of this year. ¡§With China having entered the World Trade Organization, we are hopeful that the restrictions will be more relaxed,¡¨ said Xie of SMIC. Besides the influence of WTO membership, SMIC officials privately believe that China¡¦s tacit support for the U.S. war against terrorism, and a subsequent easing of Sino-U.S. tensions, also will work in their favor. However, SMIC has a Plan B in case the technology export rules aren¡¦t relaxed this year. Instead of using the equipment to print and etch circuit linewidths, it has developed a ¡§process shrink¡¨ that can achieve the equivalent of 0.18-micron performance without breaking the existing rules. So if 0.18 micron isn¡¦t allowed, ¡§it won¡¦t be a showstopper,¡¨ says Xie. Yet some in the industry believe that even if China is allowed to move quickly to 0.18-micron devices, commercial production won¡¦t happen overnight. Mainland fabs don¡¦t yet have the required infrastructure or the revenue stream for leading-edge technology development, according to Cary Halsted, KLA-Tencor¡¦s vice president of field operations for Taiwan and China. Hawks in the U.S. Defense Department would argue that the current restrictions on China are still justified to prevent the dual use of sensitive technology. The export restrictions are a throwback to the Cold War days when a powerful computer used for weather forecasting also could be used for military purposes. However, in the case of semiconductor manufacturing, the rules don¡¦t appear to make sense because you can¡¦t use a set of wafer fab tools clandestinely for military purposes. If military chips were being made in the fab, it would be with approval from management ¡V a situation that¡¦s clearly not going to occur given that the newest fabs in China are mostly backed by foreign capital and run by foreign nationals or U.S. passport holders. Nor would they provide samples of sophisticated chips to the Chinese military because breaching the intellectual property rights of their customers would be a cardinal sin in the foundry world. In reality, if China¡¦s military wants leading-edge chips, it will acquire them as finished devices on the black market, so restricting the use of advanced wafer processing by Chinese fabs doesn¡¦t meet the aim of preventing devices from falling into the wrong hands. However, such a policy does help slow down China¡¦s progress toward self-sufficiency in semiconductor manufacturing. That alone is justification enough for the anti-China camp. As much was said by a U.S. Defense Department official in a recent Reuters news report: ¡§Our review of microelectronics dual-use licenses is colored by our evolving understanding of what China wants: a cutting-edge domestic microelectronics sector [that] will support both military and commercial modernization in China,¡¨ said Lisa Bronson, U.S. Deputy Under- secretary of Defense. In this concern the U.S. hawks are not alone. No doubt the non-Chinese foundries would share a similar view because, after all, mainland foundries with unlimited access to technology will provide more competition at the leading edge. ¡§You are basically giving carte blanche for China¡¦s technological independence,¡¨ said a senior executive at one foundry start-up. Some, like Singapore¡¦s Chartered Semiconductor, have evidently decided that if you cant beat them, it¡¦s better to join them. About the Author Craig Addison is a Hong Kong-based commentator on the semiconductor industry and Asia-Pacific contributing editor for Semiconductor Magazine. Reach him by e-mail at [email protected]. |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 11:10 | |
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>>>«Å©ú´¼¬Q¤Ñªí¥Ü¡AÁp¹qµn³°pµe¨S¦³·s¶i«×¡A¥LÅ¥»¡³¡¤ÀÁp¹qû¤u¹L¦~«án¨ìĬ¦{©MŲ¥ô¾¡AÁp¹q©MĬ¦{©MŲºû«ù¤£¿ùÃö«Y¡A³o¨Çû¤u¥i¯àì¨Ó¦bÁp¹q¤u§@¡A¦ý¥LÌ¥h¤j³°©MÁp¹q¨S¦³Ãö«Y¡AÁp¹q¯¬ºÖ³o¨Ç´«¶]¹Dªºû¤u¡C °²¥P¡A»¡ÁÀ°_½X¤]¸Ëªº¹³¤@ÂI¡C Happy Wealth Inc. ¸ò Invest League ªº ¡y³Ì²×¨ü¯q¤H final beneficiary¡z¬O½Ö°Ú? µê°°³y°²»¡ÁÀªº¹Hªk°½¶]¶û¥Ç ±q¤ý¤å¬v¨ì±ä¿³¸Û. |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 11:16 | |
Re:¤K¦T´¹¶êµn³°¡A¬O·M©Î¬OºÆ¡H | |
SRam SMIC licensed from Toshiba , DRam Hua Hong NEC is making , such standard devices are totally different from custom made ASIC . |
¬h¾ö ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 12:08 | |
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¥xÀs¥S: §Aªº»¡ªk¬O˪G¬°¦],§A¹ï²£·~¥i¯à¤£¬O«Ü¤F¸Ñ,¬O§_§ä¤@¤U¤W¶µ²£·~ªº¬ÛÃö¸ê®Æ,¦A¤U©w½×¦p¦ó! |
ºÖº¸¼¯¨F ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 17:43 | |
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¬JµM¤w¨M©w´N±¹ï§a,¨Ã«D¤K¦T´¹¶ê¤£µn³°´N¯à¸Ñ¨M¥¢·~°ÝÃD©ÎÄߩȤj³°¦b§Þ³N¤WÀò±o, ¬ì§Þ¬O¤é¤é·s,¤ë¤ë·s¡C ³o´N¦p·s³¯¥NÁ¤@¯ë,¡u¦³®ÄºÞ²z,¿n·¥¶}©ñ¡v»OÆW±NÁÚ¤J·s¬ì§Þ¥ø·~±¸°_,¤H¤~½ú¥X,«i©¹ª½«e,¥]¾÷«á¤U¤@¨B´N¬Oª½¯è¶}©ñ¤£»·¤F! |
Simon ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/24 18:53 | |
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Simon: You said, ©Ô¤U³o¼Ëªºªü«ó²z©Ò·íµM¡A §Y¨ÏªxÂűo§Q¤]¤£¬O§Ú̩үà¦Ò¼{ªº. ¥²³º¥Á¥D¬Fªv¬O¿ï¥X¿ï¥Á´Á«Ýªº°µªkªºÔ¿ï¤H¡A¹ç¯Ê¤ÅÀݤ]¬O¿ï¾Ü I wonder we have this kind of luxury at present. You sound desperate. I hope that you do not really mean it. I also hope that you would name some names for reference. |
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¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/25 23:46 | |
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¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 00:16 | |
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«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 01:11 | |
Re:¤K¦T´¹¶êµn³°¡A¬O·M©Î¬OºÆ¡H | |
¥xÀs¥S ´N¬O³o¨ÇªF¦è!!!Åý¥xÆW¬£Æ{¨ò¦b¤ß¤fÃø¶}~~~Ãö£{~£u~¤õ!!! ¡i¤@:¥ßªk©eûn±q¤@¹ï¤@¿ï°Ï¿ï¥X¡j ¡¹³o¨Ç¦p¤£§ï²~~~¥Ã»·¦³¤¤°ê¤H¤W¤U¨ä¤â!!! |
Mark ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 01:13 | |
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The big picture for the pro-Taiwan camp IMHO should be whether Abian still embraces ²Î¦X½× all the way into his second term if there will be another term for him. Currently, it is more than just a whiff of suspicion that he is leading us economically in sync with his ²Î¦X½×. Many Taiwanese including business tycoons like Wang of Formosa Plastics or Chang of Evergreen have already sided with ²Î¦X½×. And they have been practicing what they preached without thinking too much about whether it would hurt Taiwan or not. As long as China looks economically promising, they would not be bothered. Chang who used to be an unequivocal supporter for pro-Taiwan agenda said the other day, if I recall correctly, that Taiwanese were also Chinese. Apparently, he was not so enthusiastic to differentiate the interests of Taiwan from that of China based on ideological insistence. He clearly lays his loyalty where his business prospect may get another shot in the arm. Now, these big guns out of their business desperation are shooting for ²Î¦X½× in earnest. What about Abian? What is his promised land? Is he still sharing the same dream as we have in mind? In domestic issues, yes, he may. Yet, with regard to the future of Taiwan in relations with China, it increasingly does not look like so. To put it more bluntly, his promised land does not seem too much different from what Wang as well as Chang has in their minds. That is Taiwan cannot survive economically without China. More worrisome is that politically Abian might carry a China dream that is yet to be fully known. Having seen so many side shows being played out by Abian to sometimes confuse us, I hate to say this: Abian is more likely to push his pipe dream of ²Î¦X½× with full speed in his assumed second term with or without our agreements. It would be too late to stop him by then. Should I have to choose nobody but him? I would feel extremely guilty of choosing him if other than the domestic issues there is a big cloud hung in my mind over how he would lead his fellow Taiwanese. Do I have to be forced to subscribe his ²Î¦X½× sometimes in the future as Taiwan looks heading to become an economically less viable country under his helm? Over my dead body. |
HitCat ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 01:13 | |
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«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 01:31 | |
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¸ô²p ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 02:21 | |
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«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 02:41 | |
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ACE ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 02:55 | |
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TR ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 04:21 | |
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yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 04:27 | |
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NO:31_114 ¸ô²p ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 02:05 ¸ô²p: I can not agree with your argument that we should punish A-Bian and his team because the pace of progress is slower than that of the fifteen years before 2,000 AD. First of all, the assessment of faster pace of progress between 1986~2,000 is erroneous. If that were true, De~ Lam Yong would not burn himself to death, 520 would not happen....... Your thesis that Taiwanese people would strive for progress only under oppression is faulty too. For were it true in your argument, one would have to propound the submission to the PRC in order to get the progress through the tortuous route of oppression! You would laugh at this ridiculous deduction, would you not? Yet, this is exactly the argument would lead if pushed to its natural conclusion! |
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TR ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 05:06 | |
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kk ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 05:10 | |
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yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 22:57 | |
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¡@ ³£µLªk§_©wªº½T¦b¨º¬q®É´Á§¹¦¨¤F³\¦h«¤jªº¬Fªv§ï²³o¤@¨Æ¹ê¡A§Únªí¹Fªº·N«ä¬O¡A¬Fªv§ï²¨Ã¤£¥²µM¾Ö¦³°õ¬FÅv¤~¯à¹F¦¨¡A¦b³¥ÄҩάOªÀ·|¤O³£¬O¹F¦¨¬Fªv§ï²¤£®e§_©wªº¤O¶q¡C §Ú¤£Â_±j½Õ³o¨Ç¡A¥Øªº´N¬O¯}°£¡yªü«ó¤U¥x¡B¤Ï°Ê¶Õ¤O´_»÷¡A¼Ä¤Hµ´¤£·|Åý¥xÆW¦A¦³¾÷·|¡z³o¤@ª¼ÂI¡]°g¥¢¡^ ¸ô²p: ¡@ There is a saying, the devil is in the details. All those progressesyou mentioned were the simple acts (albeit only after long and persistent struggle) of putting on labels. Of course it can be argued that the first step is the toughest. But my experience in life teaches me that the concrete steps to be carried out day in and day out are more taxing on ones patience and tenacity, especially there are no more applauses for your toiling! Let us look at the glorious sounding judicial reform, do you really think it was a greater achievement with the formation of the Min Jian Shi Fa Gai Ge Hui than the recentl shaking up of those stones (Yang Ren Shou et al) in the Shi-Fa Yuan? |
¥xÀs ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 23:19 | |
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pero ¡@©ó¡@2003/01/26 23:25 | |
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