洛馬雙禽最新動態
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黃金左腳 於 2002/10/01 20:26 | |
洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
老英海空軍FOAS(?)與FCBA計畫案終於定案,勝出者F-35:垂直起降型。 1. 皇家海航預定採購150架F-35短場起飛/垂直降落多用途戰機,以取代現役的獵鷹式GR7/GR9垂直起降戰鬥攻擊機,並於2012年起和研發中的CVF未來空母一同成軍服役。 2. 英國的參與F-35計畫的企業公司預期將能從中獲利達423億美金(這是老英目前投資購買F-35所需花費至少三倍的回饋....真是賺翻了,特級老美盟邦不一樣就是不一樣。),並且增加八千五百多個工作機會。。 3. 在搭配航空母艦方面,CVF的滿載排水量將介於五萬五千至六萬噸之間,且單艘造價預定將不超過四十七億美金(三十億英鎊);英國方面希望,兩艘CVF與150架F-35短場起飛/垂直降落多用途戰機的搭配將能滿足至少五十年的戰術需要;更有甚者,雖然已經選定垂直起降構型戰機作為下代主力,但是英國國防部仍然屬意並繼續推動傳統起降型的CVF設計,其目的是為了讓新航艦保持最大的操作彈性,若有必要,能在最短的時間內以最經濟有效的方式從垂直起降戰機母艦升級改裝為傳統起降戰機母艦,以因應萬一F-35退役時(?),其後繼者(無人戰鬥攻擊機、王爾古雷、英格蘭姆、VF-91、剛彈.......)若非短場/垂直起降時之需........ F-35都至少要服役到2050~2060年了,CVF計畫居然還在肖想F-35後繼者的換裝應用問題??想得可真是遠啊........看來CVF頗有希望以七八十歲的高齡之身,參與0083星辰墜落作戰行動了。 Britain chooses Lockheed jets to replace Harriers BLACKPOOL, England, Sept 30 (AFP) - 18:05 GMT - Britain will buy up to 150 Short Take Off and Vertical Landing versions of the new Lockheed Martin F35 military aircraft to replace its Harrier jump jets, the defence ministry said Monday. The minister said the government had selected the short take off and vertical landing version (STOVL) of Joint Strike Fighter jets, known as F35, which will begin flying from 2012. I can confirm that we have decided to enhance that mobility and flexibility further by choosing an adaptable design for two future aircraft carriers as part of the largest shipbuilding program this country has seen in years, Hoon told the Labour Partys annual conference in Blackpool. His deputy, Defence Procurement minister Lord Bach said of the new plane: We have chosen this variant, which is the one being bought by the US Marine Corps, because it fully meets our military needs. And it builds on Britains unique and valuable knowledge of STOVL aircraft acquired during nearly four decades of operations with Harrier on land and at sea, he added. Bach said the two new aircraft carriers needed to house the F35 must have the maximum flexibility to meet our defence needs throughout their service lives of up to 50 years. That is why weve decided they will be built to an innovative adaptable plan so that they will operate STOVL F35 aircraft, but can be modified to fly the generation of aircraft - which might possibly be unmanned combat aerial vehicles - even beyond the F35, whether or not these too are STOVL, said Bach. Industry estimates that some 3,500 jobs could be created or sustained by work on the Lockheed F35 in Britain rising to 8,500 once the aircraft moves into production and then into service. The total value of the F35 program, including exports, to British industry could be as much as 27 billion pounds sterling (43 billion euros/42.3 billion US dollars), the defence ministry said. Ministers will announce early in 2003 which of two competing prime contractors, Thales Naval and BAE Systems, will be responsible for the ships design and construction. |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/02 01:20 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
老法打算和老英共同開發下一代航艦以節省成本,故先前一直敦促老英儘早決定FCBA所使用的機型,以便老法及早評估是否能和老英共同合作開發下一代空母;如今老英卻拋回一個一石二鳥的妙答:使用短場垂直起降構型戰機,但發展的航艦卻是具有CV特色的STOVL,只要有必要,可以輕易的在兩者間變來變去........就不知老法是否滿意這套隨身變方案,與老英合作了;不過老法所屬意的新型空母當為四萬噸級上下,和老英計畫中五萬五至六萬噸的空母顯有差距,如何化歧求同,有待觀察。 |
flak 於 2002/10/02 10:32 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
單引擎版F-22請參考: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2002/articles/arp_02/jsf/index.html 雙引擎版F-35請參考: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2000/articles/oct_00/f-22/old/f22_2.html |
路過的人 於 2002/10/02 11:40 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
有個笨問題想請較......> < >>>使用短場垂直起降構型戰機,但發展的航艦卻是具有CV特色的STOVL, 即使如此, 老英理想中的下一代航母卻比老法的理想下一代航艦 Why??? |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/02 18:46 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
Why??? 是搭載機數, 動力系統上的差別嗎?? 可能原因(個人觀點): 2. 老法的經濟體質不如老英,能維持兩艘四萬噸級中型空母的編制已經是其能力極限,而為了維持航艦兵力於二艦體制而不墜,法國海軍迄今已付出刪除兩艘凱旋級SSBN,一艘紫水晶級SSN,取消M-5 SLBM發展計畫,艦載疾風採購數量由86架刪減至60架,二號空母可能無法採用所費不貲的核子動力設計,且服役年代比首號艦至少晚上16年等等代價。無法和老英那種三年內成軍兩艘五六萬噸級中重型空母,一次就150架F-35B,未來甚至還打算在航艦上起降剛彈那種大氣魄,大手筆相提並論。 3. 英國對其未來空母的艦載機搭載(50架v.s40架)與每日出擊架次(100至150架次/每日v.s50至100架次/每日)的水準要求比法國(以戴高樂艦為基準的話)為高,但採用的卻又是需要額外儲存艦用燃料空間的傳統動力推進,要維持達到上述要求的相應艦載機安放空間與艦載機燃料與武裝儲存,其排水噸位自然是得比採用核子動力推進但要求卻較低的法國航艦顯著為高。 |
SK2 於 2002/10/02 18:51 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
還有兩國航空隊的結構及數量上的差別 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/02 19:01 | |
補充消息.......... | |
Up to 150 Short Take Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) versions of the new the Lockheed Martin F35s, which MoD has chosen as having the best potential to replace both land-based and carrier-based Harrier aircraft, are planned in a programme worth up to £10 billion. They will enter service with the first of the new carriers in 2012. 150架F-35B的量產服役取代計畫,總價竟高達100億英鎊,合計美金約160億!!分攤在每架戰機上的話,平均每架戰機的造價超過一億美金,絲毫不讓RAFALE與EF2000專美於前.... 越來越難以理解JSF到底價廉物美在哪裡了......... |
ewings VonBraun 於 2002/10/02 19:11 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
因為他們會旱地拔蔥 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/04 23:09 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
中央社記者韓乃國倫敦三日專電)英國國防部已決定建造兩艘大型航空母艦,另外並向美國採購一百五十架F-35短程起飛/垂直降落隱形聯合攻擊戰機 (JSF),以取代服役年限即將屆滿的鷂式垂直起降戰機。
A: 原來如此,如此一來,F-35B就算含研發成本的單價也不過五千多萬美金,誠然是價廉物美。只是老美生產三千架JSF的平均成本單價是6600~6700萬美金一架,而老英在買理論上是F-35家族最貴的成員(垂直起降型)時,單價居然只要5000多萬美金??特級盟國果真不是當假的啊........
A: 艦載傳統起降型的發展,干美國空軍何事??不解..........
A: 口胡.........堂堂的光輝特拉法加後裔竟然要仰賴暗黑拿破崙繼承者的保護??可恥啊..... |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/11 21:22 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
自http://www.vectorsite.net/avf22.html節錄: The heart of the F-22s electronics capabilities is the APG-77 radar system, though it is so much more than a radar that some prefer to call it a multifunction RF system instead. With the APG-77, the F-22 will be able to detect an enemy aircrafts radar from distances of up to 460 kilometers (250 nautical miles). It will be able to acquire an enemy aircraft with radar at distances of up to 230 kilometers (125 nautical miles), while its low probability of intercept radar signal will be very difficult to detect and the stealthy F-22 will remain invisible to the enemys radar. (利用被動偵搜感應的方式,AN/APG-77可以探測到460km範圍內敵機所散發的雷達波,若以主動探測的方式,則能探測到230km範圍內的敵機.......LUZE君的想法似乎被印證了。)
(.........這段文章的真實性,在下持高度懷疑:軍武文獻中找不到ERAAM有此驚人射程的記載,就算F22的超音速巡航能顯著延伸AAM有效射程,這個數據也委實太誇張。果真如此的話,那以老英老德為首的歐洲各國致力研發因科技尖端複雜,服役時程一延再延,從2008延到2012年之後的METEOR之舉動簡直和白癡無異。)
(簡單一句話........神!!)
(真的只有120度??在下似乎快要聽到看到老法對其最大搜索角度140度的新型RBE-2 AESA雷達大吹特吹、洋洋自得的言行神態表情了。)
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TTSO 於 2002/10/12 02:07 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
Once AIM-120 Extended Range Air To Air Missiles (ERAAM) are available, the F-22 will be able to destroy that enemy at a range of 185 kilometers (100 nautical miles). In many cases, the enemy will be hit without warning. (.........這段文章的真實性,在下持高度懷疑:軍武文獻中找不到ERAAM有此驚人射程的記載,就算F22的超音速巡航能顯著延伸AAM有效射程,這個數據也委實太誇張。果真如此的話,那以老英老德為首的歐洲各國致力研發因科技尖端複雜,服役時程一延再延,從2008延到2012年之後的METEOR之舉動簡直和白癡無異。) == http://www.global-defence.com/missiles/missile8.htm Overall the FMRAAM boasts a 250-per-cent improvement in the no-escape zone of current missiles (AMRAAM) 也就是ERAAM的射程是AMRAAM的200% 當然,AMRAAM的射程到底有多少,NEZ有多大... 謎呀!!!
== |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/12 02:34 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
No escape zone 200%恐怕不能和最大有效射程200%劃上等號吧,否則以METEOR號稱三四倍於AIM-120B的No escape zone.........莫非其最大有效射程高達280至370km?? KS-172與AIM-155的在天英靈啊,你們可以安息了........ |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/12 02:51 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
http://www.global-defence.com/missiles/missile9.htm Analysis has shown that Meteors performance is many times greater than current medium-range air-to-air missiles including the US AMRAAM, and it also has been optimised to have excellent no-escape-zone performance. 若TTSO君的說法成立的話,那打敗FMRAAM的METEOR真的是全世界最會裝蒜的武器系統了,明明有著少說三百公里級的最大射程,竟然在截至目前所有的公布資料中,宣稱自己的最大有效射程僅≧100km??真是太深藏,太不露了。 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/12 03:01 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
自http://www.vectorsite.net/avf35.html節錄: The heart of the JSFs sensors will be the Raytheon Multifunction Integrated Radio-Frequency System (MIRFS), based on the APG-77 active electronically scanned array (AESA) developed for the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. The JSFs MIRFS will provide a range of functions, acting as a multimode radar, active jamming system, passive electronic defense system, and communications system. MIRFS will generate signals over a wide range of frequencies and pulse patterns in an unpredictable fashion to ensure low probability of intercept, allowing the F-35 to see but not be seen.
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TTSO 於 2002/10/12 09:20 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
No escape zone 200%恐怕不能和最大有效射程200%劃上等號吧,否則以METEOR號稱三四倍於AIM-120B的No escape zone.........莫非其最大有效射程高達280至370km?? KS-172與AIM-155的在天英靈啊,你們可以安息了........ == 我原本的算法是基於能量需求比下去算,不過後來想一想發現我忽略了速度變數 假設兩種飛彈對於NEZ的定義一樣 不過我當初忽略了速度這個因素 所以如果FMRAAM的NEZ是AMRAAM的280%,這個數值還得去除FMRAAM:AMRAAM的飛行速度比值後才會是同狀態下的最大射程比 當然這些的前提是NEZ的定義要一樣,如果一枚用的目標機航速是M1.2另一枚是M0.8 算法可能還有漏洞,我再想想看... |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/12 12:00 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
沖壓推進AAM的飛行原理類似飛機,可以該快(終端飛行殺敵時)的時候才快,不需要那麼快的時候(中途飛行慢慢摸近敵機時)就慢飛以節省燃料留待終端殺敵時用,流星AAM的固體燃料沖壓發動機有11段(以上)可調控油門變化,FMRAAM的沖壓發動機則至少有三段,因此其從發射至命中目標間的飛行速度勢必是視情況發展變動而變化多端,和AMRAAM大型沖天炮式的飛行模式大不相同,難以相互比較。 所以,METEOR和FMRAAM之所以能擁有AIM-120數倍的NEZ,應該不是因為其能量比較AIM-120高上數倍,而是因為其懂得節約能源,不是一個勁的埋頭猛衝,將速度能量浪費在半途上。 |
聯合控制 於 2002/10/12 12:13 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
以色列最近為了被拒絕加入F-35的第三梯的研發團隊計劃,抱怨美國是有心排斥以色列加入F-35的技術開發。 美國應該是有心排斥以色列加入F-35的技術開發,因為以色列在過去已經私下將很多軍事技術透露給中國。而美國是懷疑以色列的加入,最終會把F-35的技術私下透露給中國,因為中國急于得到這種技術,而以色列只是中國的技術偷竊者。 |
TTSO 於 2002/10/12 21:42 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
沖壓推進AAM的飛行原理類似飛機,可以該快(終端飛行殺敵時)的時候才快,不需要那麼快的時候(中途飛行慢慢摸近敵機時)就慢飛以節省燃料留待終端殺敵時用,流星AAM的固體燃料沖壓發動機有11段(以上)可調控油門變化,FMRAAM的沖壓發動機則至少有三段,因此其從發射至命中目標間的飛行速度勢必是視情況發展變動而變化多端,和AMRAAM大型沖天炮式的飛行模式大不相同,難以相互比較。 所以,METEOR和FMRAAM之所以能擁有AIM-120數倍的NEZ,應該不是因為其能量比較AIM-120高上數倍,而是因為其懂得節約能源,不是一個勁的埋頭猛衝,將速度能量浪費在半途上。 == RAMJET飛彈NEZ之所以會比傳統火箭高這麼多,是因為它可以長時間燃燒,保持長時間的高速中途歸向,並不是說中途以較低的巡速飛行 Also, 「可以該快(終端飛行殺敵時)的時候才快」這段話基本上是有問題的 Also2, RAMJET的比衝比固態火箭發動機好,至於AMRAAM vs FMRAAM/METEOR的發動機比衝到底差多少,我不知道,我猜也不會有外人知道... 固態火箭要一開始就衝高空高速不是它的錯,是因為這就是它的天性 |
ewings VonBraun 於 2002/10/12 22:07 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
難道沒有過彎補油門的模式嗎? :P |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/12 23:43 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
可變推力的固態火箭... 這種東西太貴了,不可能用在飛彈上 當年AIM-155在尚未取消之前,便有一組勇者團隊挑戰過這不可能的任務...... 1. 通用動力/西屋集團:使用多脈衝式固體火箭馬達推進設計,發射初期加速性能快。 2. 休斯。雷神。麥道集團: |
flak 於 2002/10/14 10:21 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>你的飛速越高,等G下的迴轉半徑越差 速度越快,可達到G值越高。這就是為什麼S-300、愛國者可以飆到幾十G的原因。飛彈G值與速度有明顯的相關,因為不像飛機會被最大的弱點所飽和:人。 |
TTSO 於 2002/10/14 23:15 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>你的飛速越高,等G下的迴轉半徑越差 速度越快,可達到G值越高。這就是為什麼S-300、愛國者可以飆到幾十G的原因。飛彈G值與速度有明顯的相關,因為不像飛機會被最大的弱點所飽和:人。 == 人不會飽和飛彈的G值限,但是目標機的瞬間閃避跟彈體的高速會讓你G限飽和.. 假設你的目標機可以做M0.8 13G瞬間閃避動作 Rocket AAM還沒到終端就cuteoff,終端空速老早掉到M2以下. 與其這樣,RAMJET AAM還不如在TOA或TOA後降縮油門,用慣性減速飛最後那10nm或者是更短的距離,降速到M2 M2.5後開最大推力,反正高機動歸向一定會花一堆能量,就一路點著最大推力去減低機動歸向的能量損失.. 要一路燒到尾就得算準,賭定歸向的最後彎時空速已經被消耗到M2.. 不然就等著看被閃好玩.. |
愛新覺羅貝怡 於 2002/10/14 23:36 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
TO:帥帥的黃金哥哥 >F-35都至少要服役到2050~2060年了,CVF計畫居然還在肖想F-35後繼者的換裝應用問題??想得可真是遠啊........看來CVF頗有希望以七八十歲的高齡之身,參與0083星辰墜落作戰行動了。 到0083時還需要F-35嗎?馬克羅斯的時代不是已經來臨囉!VF-19它們不是服役囉!F-35要進話成VF-35可能比較有看頭喔cccc >以因應萬一F-35退役時(?),其後繼者(無人戰鬥攻擊機、王爾古雷、英格蘭姆、VF-91、剛彈.......)若非短場/垂直起降時之需........ 0083後好像已經沒有起降上的問題喔??並且還可以直接到大氣層或宇宙耶! |
ewings VonBraun 於 2002/10/16 00:20 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
> 與其這樣,RAMJET AAM還不如在TOA或TOA後降縮油門,用慣性減速飛最後那10nm或者是更短的距離,降速到M2 M2.5後開最大推力,反正高機動歸向一定會花一堆能量,就一路點著最大推力去減低機動歸向的能量損失 > 可調式推力在機動段應該有幫助吧 巨莽四可變推力應該不是為了巡航吧 |
flak 於 2002/10/16 09:21 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>人不會飽和飛彈的G值限,但是目標機的瞬間閃避跟彈體的高速會讓你G限飽和.. 對啊 沒有飛彈的高速,根本達不到飽和G限。跟人一點關係都沒有。 飛彈的翼負荷很高,所以他的角隅速度一定是在高速段,甚至是超音速。所以達不到高速,別想達到最高G限。 再其次飛彈的末端續航引擎推重比已經不高,但超音速的阻力卻大,所以飛彈轉彎會遭遇強大的阻力拖住動能,導致缺乏升力進行轉彎。所以一開始進入轉彎的時候,更要以高速進入,供轉彎時消耗。 就像越戰的F-105,遭遇SA-2時,第一動作是什麼?加速!加速是為了更長久的轉彎,這就是剩餘能量比低,升力重量比更低的戰機的轉法。飛彈的設計是類似這種能量不足的飛機,而不是能量過剩,還可以「持續」高G轉彎的第四代戰機。以第四代這種升重比高,推重比也高的想法去套用在飛彈身上,自然會得到奇怪的結論。 |
helldog 於 2002/10/16 11:58 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
請問現今飛彈是否只能轉彎一次?如果敵機甩掉第一次的鎖定.就算飛彈想要再次轉彎,然後 再鎖定,也已經沒有燃料了?? |
flak 於 2002/10/16 12:53 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>請問現今飛彈是否只能轉彎一次?如果敵機甩掉第一次的鎖定.就算飛彈想要再次轉彎,然後 >再鎖定,也已經沒有燃料了?? 迄今沒有一種對空飛彈可以再次攻擊目標的。 尤其是引信與射控系統結合的飛彈,通常錯過目標的時候會自行引爆。 |
KGB 於 2002/10/16 15:43 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>請問現今飛彈是否只能轉彎一次?如果敵機甩掉第一次的鎖定.就算飛彈想要再次轉彎,然後 >再鎖定,也已經沒有燃料了?? 迄今沒有一種對空飛彈可以再次攻擊目標的。 尤其是引信與射控系統結合的飛彈,通常錯過目標的時候會自行引爆。 可以用資料鏈將飛彈拉回來嗎? |
flak 於 2002/10/16 16:10 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>可以用資料鏈將飛彈拉回來嗎? 目前沒看到有人有這個打算。 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/16 19:33 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
現代化的SAM與AAM, 彈頭有效必殺半徑往往可達數十公尺, 既然在可見的未來, 還沒有那國打算開發剛彈或是在戰機上安裝廢鈾裝甲, 則又何苦執著於愛的一發.......不是, 命中一發而在那裡夜長夢多?? |
cobrachen 於 2002/10/17 01:43 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
8月下旬的F-22A第一次以外掛的方式攜帶兩枚AIM-120進行試飛。掛載是利用機翼外側的掛架進行。 |
TTSO 於 2002/10/17 11:54 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>人不會飽和飛彈的G值限,但是目標機的瞬間閃避跟彈體的高速會讓你G限飽和.. 對啊 沒有飛彈的高速,根本達不到飽和G限。跟人一點關係都沒有。 飛彈的翼負荷很高,所以他的角隅速度一定是在高速段,甚至是超音速。所以達不到高速,別想達到最高G限。 再其次飛彈的末端續航引擎推重比已經不高,但超音速的阻力卻大,所以飛彈轉彎會遭遇強大的阻力拖住動能,導致缺乏升力進行轉彎。所以一開始進入轉彎的時候,更要以高速進入,供轉彎時消耗。 就像越戰的F-105,遭遇SA-2時,第一動作是什麼?加速!加速是為了更長久的轉彎,這就是剩餘能量比低,升力重量比更低的戰機的轉法。飛彈的設計是類似這種能量不足的飛機,而不是能量過剩,還可以「持續」高G轉彎的第四代戰機。以第四代這種升重比高,推重比也高的想法去套用在飛彈身上,自然會得到奇怪的結論。 == 討論串後面的癥結不在於終端是次音速還是超音速,而是M2 or M3 or M4 今天的狀況是「RAMJET AAM在終端時引擎還在燒,依舊保持推力」 這種情況下你要拿什麼速度去終端?M2 or M3 or M4? 與第四代戰機相比,飛彈的確是高翼負荷設計,但是卻不一定是低推重比,這跟發動機有關 RAMJET推力控制能力讓你可以選擇要以多少速度終端、並且讓你終端時還有推力去推飛彈,這是除了高射程短飛行時間外最大的優點
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黃金左腳 於 2002/10/18 00:08 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
8月下旬的F-22A第一次以外掛的方式攜帶兩枚AIM-120進行試飛。掛載是利用機翼外側的掛架進行。 洛馬集團兩年前所承諾,猛禽最華麗的雄姿(內外掛載14枚AIM-120C5與2枚AIM-9X,外帶四具2270公升級超大型副油箱)就快要實現了........ |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/19 11:44 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
F/A-22 RAPTOR 一、機身尺寸: 全長..............18.90m
高空最高時速...........≧1.8M(2.0M+) 海平面爬升率.............350m/sec 空戰推重比..............1.46/0.98(後燃/最大軍用) 航程......................≧4000km(無副油箱)
後燃推力.......15875kg*2,未來可能會提升至18144kg*2
偵測距離(最大距離)...............≧400km(一說460km以上) # 在使用資料鏈網路作戰系統與整合式被動電戰系統之下, 猛禽戰機據說甚至可在不開雷達以更增匿蹤能力的情況下, 依據友軍資料或是目標的電磁信號特徵, 於460公里範圍內察覺發現敵機存在,230公里範圍內予以定位。拜其優異的超音速巡航能力之賜, 猛禽能充分發揮AIM-120C有效射程的極限, 於距敵機四五十公里外開火殺敵 (若使用即將量產成軍, 更新的AIM-120改型, 例如C5, PIP3, PIP4等等, 則其有效射程更可望拓展至六七十公里以上......), 而在猛禽舉世無雙的匿蹤性能面前, 目前各國時下第一流的戰機雷達理論上都得靠近猛禽至20公里以內才有可能初步察覺其存在. # 根據某些大陸軍武文獻的說法, 猛禽戰機上的整合式被動電子戰系統可以在收集記錄敵機的電磁信號特徵之後, 用於導引發射AIM-120, 此時的AIM-120有如一款反輻射飛彈, 順著敵人的電磁信號追尋殺敵, 本身無須開啟尋標器, 因此更加不易洩漏飛彈蹤跡, 敵人也更容易死得不明不白. # 為了因應先進感測器所帶來的大量資訊之處理整合問題, 猛禽戰機上有四具相當克雷二型超級電腦等級的任務電腦與超高速光纖資料排流匯, 運算速度, 處理能力與擴充升級潛力無與倫比; 其亦十分重視人機介面的整合工作, 希望透過簡易明白的重大資訊呈現方式與傻瓜式戰機操作, 讓資質普通的飛行員亦能輕易將猛禽操作上手, 且成為空戰王牌飛行員.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~carlo/archive/MILITARY/AA/flanker.html 簡而言之: NO11雷達(SU-35的雷達配備)能偵測的最大距離 / R-77尋標器(AGAT9B-1103M / 9B1348)能追蹤到的最大距離 / R-77尋標器能鎖定的最大距離 F15/SU27 (正面RCS: 5~10m2): 180~200KM / 70~80KM / 15~20KM F/A-18 C (正面RCS: 1~2m2) : 140~165KM / 45~55KM / 10~15KM RAFALE B/C (正面RCS: 0.5m2): 90~95KM / 25~35KM / 8~10KM F/A-18 E/F (正面RCS: 0.1m2): 75~85KM / 20~25KM / 7~8KM F-22A (正面RCS : 0.001m2以下): 15~18KM / 5~6KM / 1~2KM
1. 機腹彈艙可容納四枚AIM-120A/B AAM, 或是六枚AIM-120C AAM # 美空軍宣稱, F-22的整體造價比F-15E (單價約一億兩千多萬美金)高出35%左右, 但是整體致命威力 (Lethality)則將是F-15E的九倍; 英國方面的電腦模擬則顯示: 在和Su-35/37等級的對手交鋒時, F-22的的獲勝機率高達91%, 換算成交換比的話則高達10.2:1 !! # 目前首批量產的23架F-22A, 單價高達兩億零六百多萬美金一架; 美國空軍目前預定採購339架猛禽F-22A, 但是其最終需求則將介於390至762架之間. # 今年九月中旬,老美空軍正式將猛禽的代號更改為F/A-22戰鬥攻擊機,並宣稱在全新的微型精確導引對地攻擊武器的協助下,猛禽將成為無與倫比的唯一真正匿蹤打擊戰機,除了稱霸天空外,亦將在今後三十年內欺凌蹂躪敵國下兩個世代的地對空防空系統。 ================================================================================ 依照F-119引擎研發公司發言人於九零年代末期的說法, F-119引擎的推力提昇階段目標為: 2005年:提昇至45000磅級 2010年:提昇至50000磅級,此時的F119改之引擎推重比可能高達15~16:1 |
flak 於 2002/10/19 13:17 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>超音速巡航..............1.58M 記得測試時已經達到1.7M了 >此時的AIM-120有如一款反輻射飛彈, 順著敵人的電磁信號追尋殺敵, 本身無須開啟尋標器 Bill Sweetman的新書中,用Virtual Antiradiation Missile來描述這種說法。應該很清楚這不是「真的」ARM。 >2000年:35000磅級 --> 40000磅級,也就是現在的F135。 現在39000公布的推力已經是磅了。35000磅只是當初空軍開的需求。 >老美空軍正式將猛禽的代號更改為F/A-22戰鬥攻擊機, 最近AWST有一篇讀者投書:「如果掛兩枚1000磅炸彈的F-22可以改叫F/A-22的話,那掛五枚2000磅JDAM還可以同時攻擊五個目標的F-15E不就是FB-15了?」 |
toga 於 2002/10/19 17:56 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
記得測試時已經達到1.7M了 A:既然八成軍推已經可以超過1.5M了,要到1.7M應該也不是太大的問題,何況推力又有所提昇........
a:此種觀點似乎特意忽略了猛禽兩翼下還可再安裝四具掛載量超過2500公斤的多重任務掛架之事實。 |
cobrachen 於 2002/10/19 21:52 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>既然八成軍推已經可以超過1.5M了,要到1.7M應該也不是太大的問題, 那是油門推回來的時候可以維持的速度,所以要看油門最大可以衝到多大,但是推回來未必可以維持在1.7M。 |
Zenobia 於 2002/10/19 23:13 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>對了,F/A-22的最大推力從35000Ib*2升級成39000Ib*2的正式外電證明可在哪邊看到?? 來自 Bill Sweetman 某本 F-22 的書吧?他在 IAPR 5 裡是寫 38000 全 - |
Zenobia 於 2002/10/19 23:22 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
Sorry, 一時眼花,把 toga 看成 ttso 。 蛇老大, IAPR 5 裡就是寫最大無後燃速度在 1.7-1.8 之間吧,當然嚴格 |
TTSO 於 2002/10/19 23:26 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>對了,F/A-22的最大推力從35000Ib*2升級成39000Ib*2的正式外電證明可在哪邊看到?? 來自 Bill Sweetman 某本 F-22 的書吧?他在 IAPR 5 裡是寫 38000 全 後燃, 25500 軍用。目前一般公開的應該還是 35000 吧? - |
flak 於 2002/10/20 11:40 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>他在 IAPR 5 裡是寫 38000 全後燃, 25500 軍用。目前一般公開的應該還是 35000 吧? 好像的確是某本F-22的書,可是我記得後來看到的雜誌都是這樣寫。 35000磅只是美國空軍當初的要求而已,承包商要嘛就是超過,要嘛就是不足。 |
Zenobia 於 2002/10/20 19:01 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>好像的確是某本F-22的書,可是我記得後來看到的雜誌都是這樣寫。 因為大部份我們常看雜誌的 F-22 文章都是 Bill Sweetman 寫的啊..:p |
flak 於 2002/10/21 10:49 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
>因為大部份我們常看雜誌的 F-22 文章都是 Bill Sweetman 寫的啊..:p 回家對過了,第一次出現是Bill Sweetman的F-22一書,後來是某期的WAP,不過也是他寫的。 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/25 20:09 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
天地猛禽,參上∼∼!!!! Lockheed Martin Delivers First F/A-22 for Initial Operational Testing (Source: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company; issued Oct. 24, 2002) MARIETTA, Ga.---Lockheed Martin has officially delivered the first production F/A-22 Raptor air dominance fighter to the U.S. Air Force. The formal acceptance documents for the aircraft were signed at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company facility here on October 23. |
SK2 於 2002/10/25 21:48 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
Alphabet Soup of the Sky: The F/A/FB/EF/RF-22 Raptor At the 2002 Air Force Association National Convention on September 17 in Washington, DC, Air Force Chief of Staff General John Jumper announced that the F-22 Raptor would no longer be called the F-22. Rather, to reflect its multiple roles and many dimensions, the Raptor will now be designated the F/A-22 -- A for attack. But wait. Wasnt the Raptor supposed to be a pure air-superiority fighter? Wasnt that supposed to be the reason the Air Force needs it? How did this new letter get tacked on to its designation, and why? For years now, budget hawks have tried to cut the Raptor program -- by either scaling back the number of aircraft to be procured or by terminating the program entirely -- but have met with only success in reducing the number of Raptors the Air Force will buy. However, with the recent successes in lining up international participation for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, the Raptor camp must be getting nervous. Until this recent change in designation, the F-22 was said to have been designed as a pure air-superiority fighter. The JSF, on the other hand, is more of a multirole aircraft with ground-attack capabilities, as well as air-to-air. Now, suddenly, we are supposed to believe that the Raptor is a multirole aircraft, too. The Raptor camp must sense danger. Over the past few years, every time it seemed as though some cuts to the program might be on the horizon, the Air Force and Lockheed Martin, prime contractor for the Raptor, were quick to point out other roles that the controversial fighter might fill. In 1999, the notion of an RF-22 was floated (see A Reconnaissance Role for the F-22?JED , July 1999), and sources indicate that Lockheed Martin is still chatting up this idea. When the joint Airborne Electronic Attack Analysis of Alternatives (AEA AoA) was released earlier this year, it noted the possibility of creating an electronic-attack variant of the Raptor, dubbed the EF-22. As recently as August, frequent JED contributor Bill Sweetman penned an article for Popular Science discussing the notion of converting the Raptor into -- get this -- the FB-22, a bomber. For a pure air-superiority fighter, the Raptor sure seems versatile, doesnt it? Now the Raptor, in addition to being an air-superiority fighter, is a ground-attack plane as well -- the F/A-22. But isnt that exactly what the JSF is? Why does the Air Force need the Raptor then? Why should the Air Force (or more accurately, the US taxpayer) shell out $45 billion to get 295 Raptors? Do the math. The Air Force and Lockheed Martin need to do more than tack an A on the aircrafts designation to justify such an exorbitant per-unit cost. Defenders of the Raptor will be quick to point to the aircrafts stealthiness, noting its advantage over the JSF in that area, and theyre right. But so what? Stealth is a desirable characteristic in a long-range bomber, which may need to penetrate deep into hostile territory to reach its target. Stealth would also benefit a reconnaissance or surveillance aircraft so that what its looking at doesnt know its being looked at. But a stealthy fighter? Whats the point? If theres going to be a battle for control of the skies, the enemy will know youre up there anyway. As for the Raptors potential as a stealthy strike platform (the purported reason for the new A designation), lets look at armament. For every Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) carried internally, the Raptor loses two AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs). Moreover, the Raptor can only carry one JDAM in each weapons bay. Of course, the Raptor also has four external hardpoints that can be used to carry ordnance, but doing so would compromise its stealth profile. So why the A designation? Its clearly another attempt by the Raptor camp to justify the continuation of the program and the eventual expenditure of heaps of cash. Raptor can be modified for attack missions, it would be an overlapping capability, duplicating that for which the F-35 JSF was specifically designed. Right now, the Air Forces ground-attack missions are being carried out by a mix of aircraft that includes F-15E Strike Eagles, F-16CG Fighting Falcons, and A-10 Thunderbolts. When the JSF enters service, the Air Force will have another ground-attack aircraft. It doesnt need the Raptor for this mission, too. For many years now, the Raptor has been billed as an air-dominance fighter. But the US Air Force already dominates any skies in which it chooses to fly. From the outset, then, the Raptor was being designed for a mission that is already accomplished (and with less expensive aircraft). Adding yet another overlapping capability to its repertoire wont make it any more useful and actually serves to underscore the Air Forces lack of a need for the F-22, or whatever designation is chosen. http://www.jedonline.com/default.asp?journalid=4&func;=articles&page;=0210edf2&year;=2002&month;=10&doct;=online%20exclusives&rsno;=15(Subscriber only) |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/26 00:48 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
又一篇認為老美可以憑著F-15E/F-16/A-10便能永世無敵,永遠輕易控制他國領空的高論........ 不過身為歐洲三代半的支持者,在下十分支持此等高論.........P
a:........第一次聽到這種令人瞠目結舌的高論,the enemy will know youre up there anyway??又不是在演侏羅紀公園(Life will found its way anyway.......),何況就算被敵人知道粗略方向又如何??靠著匿蹤與先進電子科技,他可以從遠處予取予求的痛扁你,你照樣只有挨打或是死命逃的份兒。 |
SK2 於 2002/10/26 01:18 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
當他們發現自己的戰機慢慢消失時就會明白...... 而最後, 可能大家都在喊: 你打不到我...F-22帶2棵JDAM, 地上爬爬的東藏西躲...大家都沒法子... |
黃金左腳 於 2002/10/27 04:32 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
英國海軍未來航艦(CVF)的艦載機兵力規模大體確定: 1. 48架F-35短場垂直起降型多用途戰機 a. 空對空任務: b. 空對地任務:
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黃金左腳 於 2002/11/05 19:27 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
F-35B STOVL 戰機性能諸元 引擎動力: F-135渦扇發動機*1+Rolls Royce設計旋轉噴嘴,最大後燃推力四萬磅(18,144kg),垂直起飛模式下最大推力39,000磅(17,690kg)。 重量諸元: 尺寸諸元: 性能諸元:
1. 兩具內載彈艙,每具各可攜帶一枚AIM-120與454kg級JDAM GPS-guided bomb。 2. 至於英國方面則計畫將把英製標準千磅炸彈(每具彈艙攜帶一枚),ASRAAM(每具彈艙可攜帶兩枚), 硫磺反戰車飛彈,Storm Shadow巡航飛彈(只能外掛,且只能攜行一枚)流星中長程AAM(截至目前,無法確定其是否能順利內載)等裝載於其上。 3. 兩翼之下各有四個掛架,可用犧牲匿蹤為代價大幅增加武裝籌載﹔翼下內側掛架的最大掛載重量為 2,270 kg (5,000 pounds),並且有油路線而能攜帶副油箱﹔至於翼下外側掛架的最大掛載重量則為 1,135kg (2,500 pounds),且無油路線。此外,英國版F35B也打算在兩翼翼尖安裝掛架,以攜行短程AAM或是電子夾艙。 4. 固定武裝方面,垂直起降型將無內載機炮設計,但可以在其中一具內載彈艙安裝機炮艙夾以玆彌補。 Crew: Single-seat version only. Recognition: Similar appearance to the F-22 Raptor also designed by Lockheed Martin. Slim profile with large forward-angled intakes mounted on fuselage. Large vertical and horizontal rear surfaces extending aft of single jetpipe. F-35三款次型間的共通性: |
flak 於 2002/11/11 17:55 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
F/A-22具有空對地能力的新雷達已經開始測試,jedonline New Radar for Raptors New Mission On September 17, at the 2002 Air Force Association National Convention in Washington, DC, Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper announced that the US Air Force (USAF) had decided to change the designation of the F-22 Raptor to F/A-22. The change was meant to more accurately reflect the aircrafts multi-mission roles and capabilities in contemporary strategic environments. Secretary [of the Air Force James G.] Roche and I have decided to adopt the name F/A-22, using the A [for attack] prefix to emphasize the multiple roles and many dimensions of the Raptor, Jumper explained. The Raptor will feed on prey both in the sky and on the ground. Officials note that advances in technology and emerging Air Force doctrine make todays Raptor, being developed by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics (Marietta, GA), very different from the fighter envisioned when the program was first planned. Technological advancements in the fire-control radar and integrated avionics, combined with the advent of smaller, very precise munitions, create a far more powerful air-to-ground strike system, Jumper said in a written statement. One change will be the insertion of the new, evolved radar being developed for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. This sensor has an air-to-ground mode not available in the AN/APG-77(V) that is currently being installed in the new fighters. There will be some software changes, according to Lockheed Martin spokesman Greg Caires, and the new radar will be smaller and lighter that the current system. These changes will also be needed to accommodate the new, small-diameter bomb. There are also some inherent EW capabilities in the F-35s sensors which may be carried over into the Raptor. Current plans are for the new, as- yet-undesignated radars to be installed in Lot 6, beginning sometime in 2007 or 2008, Caires said. Whether or not there will be a retrofit into F/A-22s produced in earlier lots is uncertain. Since most of those will be used for pilot training or tactics development, the Air Force may not find it cost effective to retrofit all of those aircraft. - Kernan Chaisson |
黃金左腳 於 2002/11/13 01:05 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
老美:AESA, AESA滿天下,越貴它越普及化,AESA的精神象徵我們,錢多得沒處花.... (Source: Raytheon Company; issued Nov. 11, 2002) EL SEGUNDO, Calif. --- Raytheon Company has been awarded a $22 million contract initiating the B-2 radar Pathfinder program. This is the first phase of a multiyear program that will retrofit the B-2 Bomber fleet with a new Ku Band active array radar antenna. |
黃金左腳 於 2002/11/13 01:40 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
F/A-22最新發展動態: 1. 美國空軍官員於本月七號表示:F/A-22猛禽戰機在engineering, manufacturing and development phase可能將預算超支達六億九千萬美金(超過一個中隊的經國號戰機的總價,卻不過是猛禽計劃研發階段的又一小小超支.........)。 2. 在本月五號的測試中,新世紀猛禽戰士七號機在高度35000呎,1.5馬赫超音速巡航的狀態下,成功以一枚無彈頭AIM-120“技術命中”一架高度50000呎,超音速迎面而來,雷達截面積相當於時下傳統小型戰機的AQM-37無人靶機。 |
黃金左腳 於 2002/11/29 21:39 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
正當老美所有潛在敵國都在苦苦思索如何才能破解美帝空軍絕世猛禽機群所帶來的恐怖威脅的時候,一位替廣大第三世界國家遭萬惡美帝壓迫蹂躪的苦戰同胞們帶來救贖的救世主出現了:倫斯斐,一個單憑一人之力,斬殺1/3猛禽的傳說之男......... (Source: William Arkin; published Nov. 27, 2002) The Air Force announced last week that it was shaking up the management team for the F/A-22 Raptor, the new super-fighter jet now in development. Two new generals and a new Lockheed-Martin executive were put in charge. Typically for a mammoth Pentagon weapons program, the word only later dribbled out that the F/A-22 was over budget, behind schedule, and under assault from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfelds office. (There really isnt much difference between the Mach 1.6 speed of the F/A-22 and the Mach 1.4 that the F-35 will attain...........如果不是F-35的超音速巡航能力真的將出乎意料的驚人的話,這句話根本是顛倒是非,別有居心的刻意侮蔑貶低猛禽戰機......F-35可以在戰鬥重量下玩Mach 1.4超音速巡航??若此為真的話,F/A-22和颱風戰機是可以都去死了..........) And is there any conceivable military scenario in which the United States current nighttime stealth capabilities, plus cruise missiles, plus new satellite-guided weapons, wouldnt be good enough to prevail? If the answer is China, then we are building the wrong military anyhow. (倫斯斐爾德流的美空軍未來王道:F-15延年益壽機,F-16C Block60與阿聯同在機,更多更多更多的F-35國民年機........) |
黃金左腳 於 2002/11/29 21:59 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
來自 一擊必殺AEON環宇軍武網 新聞轉譯 FOAS計畫,定案!!?? 繼英國海軍決定購買F-35隱形戰機後 英空軍也將採購 [英國《詹氏防務週刊》2002年11月15日報導] 據英國空軍官員透露,繼2002年9月份為海軍選購了一批F-35聯合攻擊戰鬥機後,英國將為其未來空中攻擊系統再採購一批未來聯合戰鬥機。 |
TTSO 於 2002/11/30 12:29 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
TTSO大預言 3個月內應該會有另一篇USAF的模擬戰報告 講述F-15 + F-16 + F-35如何在2020年被J10 + J11 + J12痛電 F-22是一條唯一的路 |
後知後覺 於 2002/11/30 13:16 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
TTSO大預言 3個月內應該會有另一篇USAF的模擬戰報告 講述F-15 + F-16 + F-35如何在2020年被J10 + J11 + J12痛電
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黃金左腳 於 2002/11/30 13:53 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
F-15C已經被美國空軍用Su-30MKK模擬程式痛扁過一次了,其結果只換來倫老涼涼一句:誰告訴你萬一中美開戰時,我們非得要用戰術空軍與解放空軍硬碰硬的?? And is there any conceivable military scenario in which the United States current nighttime stealth capabilities, plus cruise missiles, plus new satellite-guided weapons, wouldnt be good enough to prevail? If the answer is China, then we are building the wrong military anyhow. |
TTSO 於 2002/11/30 15:39 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
前面寫的有點不好 要多加一個例外式: 我是蠻希望到了2030年就可以看到一狗票UCAV在敵人領空上以30G的超機動性狂電有人戰機..:DDD |
SANJYSAN 於 2002/11/30 22:31 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
2030年的話,滿天ABL自由射擊500km以外的敵機,測試看對方能不能生出NT來閃雷射.... |
黃金左腳 於 2002/12/07 10:36 | |
Re:洛馬雙禽最新動態 | |
洛馬集團的猛禽計畫犯下無論國會軍方國防部,人人皆曰得而砍之的殺頭大罪:超支. 其研發階段的未預期超支幅度高達七億至十億美金,分攤到老美空軍原先所預定採購的295架猛禽之上,足可使每架猛禽的單位總成本爆增2400萬至3400萬美金. 這下連老美空軍也難以替猛禽戰機的採購訂單護航開脫了...........
WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (AFP) - 22:09 GMT - The air force will build fewer F-22 fighter aircraft because of an unexpected cost overrun estimated at between 700 million and one billion dollars, a senior air force official said Friday. This program is more fragile than a lot of people believe. So we have to have optimal performance on all sides, Sambur said. The cost overrun late in the development phase of the 63 billion dollar program surprised the air force leadership, which shook up management and ordered an investigation by financial and technical experts. They found that a fin buffet problem and delays in de-bugging avionics software had pushed back scheduled completion of the aircrafts development from March 2004 to November 2005, driving up costs. The magnitude of the increase is estimated to be about 700 million dollars with a risk range up to one billion dollars, Sambur told reporters. Sambur said the air force would make up for the shortfall by building fewer of the aircraft, possibly five or six fewer over the next three years. The F-22, which combines stealth with a capability to cruise at supersonic speeds, is the air forces next generation interceptor and the cornerstone of its plans for modernizing its tactical fighter fleet. The air force had planned to buy 339 of the aircraft in all, but Under Secretary of Defense Pete Aldridge, the Pentagons acquisition chief, is considering proposals to reduce the buy. Critics have question whether the threat justifies the high cost of the aircraft, with a fly-away price of 100 million dollars. The cost per plane is actually about 200 million dollars apiece when total development and production costs are taken into account. The air force is fiercely protective of the aircraft, however, arguing that it is needed to insure US superiority in the air well into the 21st century. |
黃金左腳 於 2003/01/07 17:31 | |
F-X for European, F-X for Asian, All made in AMERICA!!!! | |
一擊必殺AEON環宇軍武網 新加坡、以色列正和美國防部官員就參與F-35隱形/匿蹤戰機計劃談判 [美國《每日航宇》2002年12月23日報導] 目前,新加坡、以色列正在和美國防部官員就如何參與F-35“聯合攻擊戰鬥機”(JSF)計劃進行談判,這兩個國家都想作為次級參與國參加該計劃。 |
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