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kidd ¡@ ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/27 23:55
¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/14 22:30
¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

¤p§Ì²Ä¤G¦¸¦b¥»ª©µo¨¥´N¶}Äæ°Ý°ÝÃD,¥u¦]¾Ç¦Ó¤£ºë,§Æ±æ¦U¦ì­x¨Æ«e½ú­Ì¦h¦h«ü±Ð!!
¤â¤W¦]¦³¤@¨Ç¦³Ãö¹ï©¤Super 7¶W7 (FC-1)ªººô¯¸¸ê®Æ,¬G·Q½Ð¦U¦ì­x¨Æ¤j­ô«e½ú­Ì
¬O§_¯à¬°.¦b¤U¬ö¼w¤p§Ì§Ì,§â¥¦»P°ê²£¦P»´«¬¾Ô¾÷IDF¸g°ê¸¹ (FCK-1)µù:­n§ï¸Ë«áªº³é!!°µ­Ó¤ñ¸û?? ÁÂÁ¤j®a!!

¤@¨Ç¦³Ãöªººô¯¸¸ê®Æ:
http://military.china.com/zh_tw/news/568/20010703/196450.html
http://www.crosswinds.net/~militarysite/file/news115.htm
http://www.crosswinds.net/~militarysite/upfile/lca_fc1a.htm
http://www.crosswinds.net/~militarysite/data/cn-new1b.htm
http://centurychina.com/plaboard/posts/269767.shtml

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Skywalker ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/14 22:41
Re : ¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

IDF¸g°ê¸¹ªº¨î¦¡½s¸¹¬OF-CK-1¡A¤£¬OFCK-1¡I

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/14 22:55
Re : ¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

Skywalker«e½ú,¤p§Ì¦]¤Ó¹L©ó±MµÛ©ó¥´¤¤¤å(The last time I used Chinese character typing was over 12 years in Taiwan for me ever since I came to U.S. when I was 13). But, no excuse! ¤@¦r¤@«ükeyªº¹ï§Ú³Ì·q·RªºIDF»¡Ánsorry!! Its F-CK-1 not FCK-1!! Correction!! :P

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ªü·F ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/15 08:51
Re : ¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

F-CK-1??????
FUCK CHINA NUMBER 1 ???

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­x¨Æ°g ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/15 09:56
Re : ¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

ªü·F¥S:
§A·Q¤Ó¦h¤F!But°÷«ÕÀq!

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toga ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 00:45
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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toga ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 00:50
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 03:39
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

´£¤É¨ì¤@¸U½Sªº±À¤O.....
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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 07:40
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 07:51
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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NO:348_1
Skywalker-Luke ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/27 23:57
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 08:17
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 08:39
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

§@ªÌ [email protected] (gdi), ¬ÝªO weapon
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®É¶¡ ¥x¤j¹q¾÷ Maxwell BBS (Sun Jul 15 04:46:48 2001)
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©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 09:20
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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¤F,¤@¨Ç®Çªù¥ª¹Dªº¤èªk¥i¯à±o¨ìªº±À¤O´£ª@³£·|¦³¬Y¨Ç¨Ï¥Î¤Wªº­­¨î.
¤£¹L§Ú·Q¸Ô²Óªº¸ê®Æ®£©È´NÄÝ©ó°ê¨¾¾÷±K¤F......

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 12:00
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

ÁöµM¶W¤C¦b¤ÞÀº³]³Æ¤W¥i¯à¤ñ¸g°ê¸¹­n¦n¤W³\¦h, ¦ýÅ¥»¡¥¦ªº§@¾Ô¥b®|·|¤Ö©ó¸g°ê¸¹¤£ª¾¬O¯u¬O°²? ¦]IDFªº§@¾Ô¥b®|¤]À³¥u¦³¬ù600KM§a!

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toga ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 15:27
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

½Ö¥i¥H±À´ú¤j¬ù¤­¤»¦~«á¶W¤CªA§Ð«áIDF¤É¯Åªº±¡ªp©O?
¤É¯Å­«ÂI¥D­nÀ³¸ÓÁÙ¬O¦b¥[±j¹ï¦a¡þ¹ï®ü§ðÀ»¯à¤O»P§@¾Ô¯èµ{¤è­±¡AªÅ¾Ô¤É¯Å¤è­±´Nºâ¬O¦³¤j·§¤]¬OÂ\¦bªZ¾¹¨t²Î¤É¯Å¤W¡]¤Ñ¼C¤G«¬ªºÄâ¦æ¶q¥Ñ²{¥Nªº¨âªT¼W¥[¦Ü¥|ªT¡AÀY²¯Åã¥Ü¾¹¡þ¥ú¹q°lÂܨt²Î¡þ¬õ¼v°ê²£¥ý¶iµuµ{AAM¡e´Nºâµo®i¦¨¥\¡A­nªA§Ð¤]¦Ü¤Ö¬O¤Q¦~¥H«áªº¨Æ¡^¡Q¦b¤ÞÀº±À¤O¤É¯Å©M¾÷Åé­«¶q¡þ¹S¸ü¶q¼W¥[¬Û¤¬©è¾Pªº±¡ªp¤U¡A§ï¨}«áªº¸g°ê¸¹¾Ô¾÷¤§°ò¥»­¸¦æ©Ê¯à­Y¯àºû«ù²{ª¬¡A«K¤wÄÝÃø¯à¥i¶Q¡C

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©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 21:23
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

IDF¥HªA§Ðªñ¤Q¦~,´Nºâ¤Q¦~«á§Ú­Ì°õ¦æº~µ¾ªº¤É¯Å­p¹º,¨ì®É­Ô­n­±¹ï¤¤°êªº
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§Ú­Ì³Ì»Ý­nªº¬OÁô§Î©M««ª½°_­°,³o¨âªÌIDF¦A«ç»ò§ï³£¦³­­.

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/16 23:50
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

¥»·QIDFÁö¤w¯Ó¥Î¤F¨Ç¤G¥N¾÷8000¤p®Éªº¹Ø©R, ¦ý¸gº~µ¾ªº©µ¹Ø§ï¸Ë¥i¦A¦h­Ó3000¤p®É, ¥B¦]Å¥»¡¶W¤C¥D­n¬°¤Ú°ò´µ©Z©Ò»s¦b©Ê¯à¤W³»¦h¹FF-16, ªp¥B¦¹¾÷¥Ø«e¶È¦bPrototypeªº¶¥¬q¹ê¦b¤]¤£À³§â¥¦®³¨Ó»P¦¨­x¤wªñ¤Q¦~ªºIDF§@¤ñ¸û.
¤p§Ì§ÚÁöµM¹ï°ê²£ªºIDF±¡¦³¿WÁé(¹ð¦¸¥Ñ¬ü¦Vº~µ¾­qÁÊIDFªºCD»P¼Ò«¬double price due to postage), ¦ý·Ó¦U¦ì±M®aªº¨£¸ÑIDF¦b¤£¤[ªº±N¨Óªº½T§Y¦¨¦Ñ¤Æª¬ºA, ÁöµM§Ú°ê¦b¬ãµoR/D·s¤@¥N¾Ô¾÷¤W¥²¶·§ë¤J·¥¤jªº¸êª÷, ¦ý¤p§Ì§ÚÁÙ¬OÆZ±H±æAIDC¯à¬°§Ú°êªÅ­x¦A³Ð§ó·sªº¯è¤Ó©_¸ñ. ´Á«Ý¤¤ªº ¶³°\ Áö¦]µÛ¥¼¨ÓRafale©ÎJSFªºÁʱo·¥¥i¯à¤w§@½}(¤¶©ó°ê¨¾¬ãµo»P¸g¶O¬O²ß²ß¬ÛÃöªº), ¦ý¤]¦]¦¹§Æ±æº~µ¾¯à­É¦¹¾÷·|ª§¨ú¦Ü¤Ö75%¦Û§Ú«÷¸Ë²Õ¦¨ (¦pÁú°êªºF-16C/D»P¥¦¥¼¨Óªº F-X program: Euro2000/Rafale/F-15©ÎSu-35), ¦Ó«á³Ð³y¬ã²ß¥X§ï¸Ëªº¯à¤O¦p³ÌªñªºF-5/Tiger2000ªºUpgrade.

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/17 00:42
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

I dont think FC-1 is nice! Aerodynamic is too conserve. And price would not be cheap bcoz FC-1 cant export to so many country. So the price will be realy high( around 20 million dollars! 250 will be produced unless PRC buy FC-1 due to failure of J-10!!) Upgrading MiG-21 is more money-saving! And FC-1 seems to be poor countries weapon.
But FC-1 can help the designer to have more experience, thats the only good thing of the project.

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/17 02:02
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To T.A.K.U.
I dont think FC-1s aerodynamic is more conservative than lets say IDF. It definitely resemble PLANs SAIG J-8 Finback J-8 a bit, but since it had gone through a approx. 40% remodel by Mikoyan due to Pakistanians request a couple of years ago. Even though its airinlets are adjacent to both sides, still at least its got the midsection waist and large nose area for more room in installing AIFF.
The last I heard PLAAF will probabily order around 150 FC-1 to replace its outdated J-6/J-7 even J-8. So, the price shouldnt be too unbearable. However, due to its rely on some of the foreign components, such as the possible number of manufactures that are bidding for the avionics system, ECM should include GEC-Marconi, Thomson-CSF, and Phanzotron. The cockpit display should feature a HUD with 25¢X field of view, 2 multi-function displays, and INS/GPS navigation systems (all should be foreign...say from Lockheed Martin), the price tag might end up high.
J-10 is designed for multi-purpose fighter, such as F-16 (can be used for mid air intercept Air defence/ASW) where as, PLAAFs Su-30MMK will play a role in high attitude ASW and FC-1 can play a role such as our IDF for low air ASW.

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/17 02:29
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

My guess:
FC-1 will act as low altitude attacker and replace Q-5 instead of interceptor or air dominance fighter bcoz J-10 and Su-27 are good at ACM. Using FC-1 to beat Mirage, F-16 is not a good choice!
But one deadly weak point is low weapon carrying capacity (3200kg). Anti-tank mission??? Impossible. Aromur will decrease the agility, while 23mm cannon is too weak. And no suitable missle like Brimstone or Maverick. Also is there lots of tanks for FC-1?? Anti-vessel?? Impossible. FBC-1 will take over it. SEAD?? I think this is possible!! Since J-10 and Su-27 is diamond for PLAAF, using low price FC-1 to take over it is nice. And Taiwan has ultra-high density in SAM!!
And FC-1 is suitable to compare with LCA and IDF.
P.S. LCA is out-dated!!

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/17 03:35
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

But, I thought PLAAF has obtained some H-6U refueling tankers. Even though they are not the best in its class. FC-1 will be in production in the next say 3 to 5 years. I believe by then it should most likely possesses some type of refueling receptacles. By then, ROCAF should have probabily standardized its Mirage2000 as well as IDF having mid-air refueling ability as well. Since from my understanding that only F-16A/B block 20 MLU in ROCAF has retained this device. Another word, ROC should obtain a refueling tanker of some kind, possibily the Boeing KC-130 Hercules tanker or KC-135 Stratotanker and its variants to counter PLAAFs air refueling capability.

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/18 00:02
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To Kidd:
­nKC-130©ÎKC-135·F¶Ü? To strike Bejing, Shanghai, or HK (No, please!, since I am living right there!!)
If Taiwan need to wipe out the PLAN and PRCs army, the best way is to develope cruise missle, but not using F-16 to carry bombs!! This is similar to commit suicide!!
And tankers is not needed for air defence, since M-2000, F-16, IDF cant support long time CAP, and there is not enough space to do that. S-300 can wipe out Taiwans fighter!
One more thing. The best way to revenge is to develope submarine, which carry land attack missle. This is the only way to succeed!

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/18 03:54
Re:¦n¹³¦³ÂIÂ÷ÃD¤F....Sorry!

To T.A.K.U:
¸Ó¬µªº®É­Ô´N±o¬µ, ¥u¬O¤£¬O¥s¥xÆW¾Ô¾÷§@¤j³W¼ÒªÅŧ (¦p¼w¹ï­^), ¦Ó¬O¥s¥¦­Ì¥h¬µ¨Ç¦³­x¨Æ§@¾Ô§Q¥Î»ù­Èªº(¦p¤s®l¤ôÅò). ±Í¤Hı±o¹ï«I²¤«O½Ã¾Ô®É¨ÃµL¤Ó¤jªº¹D¼w¦Ò¶q, ¥u­n¾Ôª§®É¤£¥Î­ì,¤¤,®ÖÃþ¼u¨Ï³y¦¨¤Ó¤jªº¯}Ãa»P¥­¥Á¶Ë¤`, «á¿ò¯gµ¥µ¥... °Ï°ÏS-300PMU1©Î¬Æ¦Ü§ï¨}«¬FT-2000¤S¦p¦ó, ¥u«ë¦Û¤v¤£·|¶}­¸¾÷§ó§O´£¾Ô¾÷¤F, ¤@¥¹§A©ÒÃö¤ßªº¤H¨Æª«¾D¯}Ãa¿äÆn´N¥i¯à³à¥¢²z´¼. ¦p§Ú±N·|¬O²Ä¤@­Ó»â­x(°²³]§Ú·|¶}¾Ô¾÷ªº¸Ü)¥_¶§ð¤J¤º³°Å§À». §Ú´N¤£¬Û«HÁפ£¶}¥¦ªºRange. ©Ò¥Hto me, tankers are needed! for special missions! ·íµM¦pªG¤¤³~¦³¸ô¹LBejing, Shanghai or hk ªº¸Ü·|¥ý³qª¾§A¤@ÁnªºÅo!!

However, I do agree w/ you on the part of SSK R/D, Cruise missiles, perhaps, MRSM. Since personally I believe after Tien Kung III/ the purchase of Patriot 3, Enough $$$ for TMD already (50% guarantee if lucky anyway). Unless is ship based such as the aegis system, $$$ should be spent on SRBM & MRBM R/D.


NO:348_2
Skywalker-Luke ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/27 23:58
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

§Ú´N¬O§Ú ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/18 22:08
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To T.A.K.U:
¸Ó¬µªº®É­Ô´N±o¬µ, ¥u¬O¤£¬O¥s¥xÆW¾Ô¾÷§@¤j³W¼ÒªÅŧ (¦p¼w¹ï­^), ¦Ó¬O¥s¥¦­Ì¥h¬µ¨Ç¦³­x¨Æ§@¾Ô§Q¥Î»ù­Èªº(¦p¤s®l¤ôÅò). ±Í¤Hı±o¹ï«I²¤«O½Ã¾Ô®É¨ÃµL¤Ó¤jªº¹D¼w¦Ò¶q, ¥u­n¾Ôª§®É¤£¥Î­ì,¤¤,®ÖÃþ¼u¨Ï³y¦¨¤Ó¤jªº¯}Ãa»P¥­¥Á¶Ë¤`, «á¿ò¯gµ¥µ¥...
A:¤T®l¤ôÅò¤@¥¹¬µÀì¡A¥þ¤¤°ê1/4~1/5ªº¤H¤f±N²_¬°ªi¦Ú¡A¤ñ¤Q´XªT®Ö¼u©Ò¯à±a¨Óªº«Â¯Ù¯}Ãa¤j¦h¤F......

°Ï°ÏS-300PMU1©Î¬Æ¦Ü§ï¨}«¬FT-2000¤S¦p¦ó, ¥u«ë¦Û¤v¤£·|¶}­¸¾÷§ó§O´£¾Ô¾÷¤F, ¤@¥¹§A©ÒÃö¤ßªº¤H¨Æª«¾D¯}Ãa¿äÆn´N¥i¯à³à¥¢²z´¼. ¦p§Ú±N·|¬O²Ä¤@­Ó»â­x(°²³]§Ú·|¶}¾Ô¾÷ªº¸Ü)¥_¶§ð¤J¤º³°Å§À». §Ú´N¤£¬Û«HÁפ£¶}¥¦ªºRange. ©Ò¥Hto me, tankers are needed! for special missions!

A:«i®ð¥i¹Å¡A¦ý¬O¹L¤À¤pòó»´©¿¹ï¤â»P¥ô°È»Ý¨D©MÃø«×¡]§A©Ò­±¹ïªº¹ï¤â·|¬O¥u¦³¡§°Ï°Ï¡¨ªºS300©MFT-2000¶Ü¡H¡H§A­n¦p¦ó¦b¹ï©¤»âªÅªíºtªÅ¤¤¥[ªo¡A¥H°õ¦æ¤º³°¥´À»¥ô°È¡H¡H¡^¤£¥u·|®`¦º¦Û¤v¡A§ó·|³s²Ö°lÀH¶¤¤Í¡C

·íµM¦pªG¤¤³~¦³¸ô¹LBejing, Shanghai or hk ªº¸Ü·|¥ý³qª¾§A¤@ÁnªºÅo!!

A:©Ò¥H³Ì«áÁÙ¬O­n®³¥­¥Á·í¹v¬O¶Ü............

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/18 23:58
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To §Ú´N¬O§Ú¥S:
>>¤T®l¤ôÅò¤@¥¹¬µÀì¡A¥þ¤¤°ê1/4~1/5ªº¤H¤f±N²_¬°ªi¦Ú¡A¤ñ¤Q´XªT®Ö¼u©Ò¯à±a¨Óªº«Â¯Ù¯}Ãa¤j¦h¤F......

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ªp¥B¾Ôª§Á`·|±a¨Ó³y¦¨·¥¤jªº¶Ë¤`, ¥u­n¨S¦³·î¥Í¨àªºÅU¼{...

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A. ·íµM¤£¬O­n¤j®a¯E¯E¿º¿º¥h·í¯«­·¯S§ð¶¤, Áö»¡¦p§Ú¥S¤ÎT.A.K.U.¥S´£Ãø«×«Ü°ª, ¦ýtanker ·|µ¥­Ô¦b«nÁú©¾²M¥_¹Dªº¾÷³õªþªñ....Special mission ¹À, ¦p¦­´Áªº½»½¿¤¤¶¤´NÀ³ºÉ¥i¯àÁ×¶}¦a­±©Î¤WªÅªº¹îı»PŧÀ».

>>·íµM¦pªG¤¤³~¦³¸ô¹LBejing, Shanghai or hk ªº¸Ü·|¥ý³qª¾§A¤@ÁnªºÅo!!

>>©Ò¥H³Ì«áÁÙ¬O­n®³¥­¥Á·í¹v¬O¶Ü............

A. §Ú¥u¬O¡§¤¤³~¡¨¸ô¹LÅýT.A.K.U.¥Sª¾¹D¤@¤U, ·Ç³Æ¥h¬å¦³­x¨Æµ¦²¤§Q¥Î»ù­ÈªºTarget¨Ã¤£¬OÀݱþµL¶d.

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§Ú´N¬O§Ú ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/19 00:50
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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2.¥xÆW¦pªG³Q±O±þ¤F¥|¤­¦Ê¸U¤H¤f¡A§A¯àµ½½}¥Ì¥ð¥G¡H¡H¦P¼Ëªº¡A¦pªG¤¤°ê¦]¦¹¦º¤F1/4~1/5ªº¤H¤f©M¼s¤jªººëµØ¦a°Ï¡A«I²¤¬O¦³¥i¯à°±¤î¡G¦]¬°¥L­Ì·|§ï¥Î®Ö¼u¡C
°£«D§Ú­Ì¦³¯à¤O¹ý©³§â¨Æ°µµ´¡GÅý¾ã­Ó¤¤°ê»PºX¤U¤HÃþ­Ì¦Û¾ú¥v¤¤°£¦W¡A©Î¦Ü¤Ö­n¯à¥Ã¤[ºR·´¤¤°êªº­x¨Æ¤O¶q¡]¯S§O¬O®Ö¾Ô¤O¡^»P¸gÀÙ¤O¶q¡A§_«h¤W­z°µªk¥u·|µ¹¥xÆW¯d¤UµL½a«á±w¡C

A. ·íµM¤£¬O­n¤j®a¯E¯E¿º¿º¥h·í¯«­·¯S§ð¶¤, Áö»¡¦p§Ú¥S¤ÎT.A.K.U.¥S´£Ãø«×«Ü°ª, ¦ýtanker ·|µ¥­Ô¦b«nÁú©¾²M¥_¹Dªº¾÷³õªþªñ....Special mission ¹À, ¦p¦­´Áªº½»½¿¤¤¶¤´NÀ³ºÉ¥i¯àÁ×¶}¦a­±©Î¤WªÅªº¹îı»PŧÀ».

AA:
§A½T©w¥x®ü¾Ô®É«nÁú·|«i©ó±N¨ä¤H¥Á¸m©ó¤¤°ê¾É¼uªº«Â¯Ù¤U¡A¤£­p¤@¤ÁªºÀ°§U¥xÆW¡H¡H«nÁú­n¯u¬O¨º»ò¦³¹D¸qªº¸Ü¡A¥xÁú¤]´N¤£·|Â_¥æ¤F¡Q¦AªÌ¡A¦pªG§Aªº¥Ø¼Ð¬O¤T®l¤jÅòµ¥¤º³°¥Ø¼Ðªº¸Ü¡ATankerÁÙ¬O±o²`¤J¤¤°ê¥h¬°§ðÀ»¾÷¸s¥[ªo¡A°£«D§A·Fªº¬O¯«­·¦¡³æµ{§ðÀ»¥ô°È¡C½»½¿¤¤¶¤®É¥Nªº¨Æ¨Ã¤£¾A¥Î©ó¤µ¤é¡A²¦³º¤¤°êªº¾ãÅéªÅ¨¾¦­¤w¤µ«D©õ¤ñ¡A§ó¦óªp½¿½»¤¤¶¤¨ì¥½´Á®É¡A¤w¬O¹ð¾DSA-2ªº«Â¯Ù»P¥´À»¡Q¤£¥Î»·§ðªZ¾¹¡A¥~±¾¤@°ï²Â­«¥B®gµ{¦b20km¥H¤Uªº¤p¤û­¸¼u¡þLGB¡þÅK¬µ¼u¡A¤í¯Ê¾÷°Ê¤O¤S²@µL°ÎÂܩʥi¨¥ªºF-16¡A·Q­n¤@¸ô¬ð¯}¤¤¦@¸Ñ©ñªÅ­x¾Ô¾÷¡]SU-27¡þJ-10¡þFC-1¡ÏR-77¡þPL-12¡þR-73¡þPL-11¡^»P¦U¦¡¨¾ªÅ­¸¼u¡]S-300¡þSA-15¡þFT-2500¡þSA-9¡þFM-90¡þ¤@°ï±ÚÁc¤£¯Å³Æ¸üªº³æ§L¨¾ªÅ¤õ¤Oµ¥¡^ªº¼h¼hÄdºI¡A¥h§ðÀ»»·¦b¤d¦Ê¨½¥~ªº¤¤°ê¤º³°¥Ø¼Ð¡A³~¤¤ÁÙ±o¦b¤j³°¤WªÅ»PªÅ¤¤¥[ªo¾÷·|¦X¥[ªo¤@¦¸¬Æ¦Ü¨â¦¸¡A³o¬Æ¦Ü½Í¤£¬O¯«­·¯S§ð¶¤¡A¦Ó¸Ó¬OÄåªá¦Û±þ¾÷¯S§ð¶¤¡C

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/19 01:26
Re:¦n¹³¯uªºÂ÷ÃD¤F­C...:P (©ç½Ö°Õ :))

To§Ú´N¬O§Ú¥S:
¥»·Q­É§U«nÁú¾÷³õ(´N¬O¦]¬°¤£ª¾¥L­ÌªÖ¤£ªÖÀ°§Ú­Ì¦£­n¤£µM¥iª½±µ­°¸¨¥[ªo®Ú¥»¤£
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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/19 01:48
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

kidd¥S
«nÁú?!·Q³£¤£¥Î·Q¡T
«nÁú¨S®`§Ú­Ì´N«Ü°½¯º¤F


NO:348_3
Skywalker-Luke ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/28 00:00
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

©«´µ¯S ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 07:35
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

>¦ý­Y­n¹F¨ì12000LBªº±À¤O¡M¤ÞÀºªÖ©w­n§ï¸Ë¡M¥i¹w¨£ªº¬O¤ÞÀº­«¶q¼W¥[¡M·|¤ñ¸û>¯Óªo¡M¦ý¥Ñ©ó¬O¥þ¼Æ¦ì±±¨î¡M¤£·|Ãa¨ì¨º¥h¡T
¹ï¤F,§Ú¬Ý¹Lªº¸ê®Æ¤¤,1042ªº·Å«×¥u¦³¤@¤d¥XÀY,¸ò«Ü¦h¨ººØ¤@¤d¤­¤@¤d¤»ªº
¤ñ°_¨ÓÀ³¸ÓÁÙ¥i¥H¦A´£°ª¿U¿N·Å«×,ÁÙ¬O¥Ø«e¤@¸U½Sªºª©¥»´N¤w¸g¬O·Å«×´£ª@«á
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¤ñ¸û²M·¡ªº.....

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 11:29
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To Kidd:
And taiwans recon power is too weak, no spy satellite, no planes like RC135, EC-130...), if you try up your paln, then ehis is similar to commit suicide.
But I suggust Taiwan to buy buddy-to buddy pod (refuelling pod) in M-2000 and help E-2T to increase its mission capacity.
P.S. Kidd, where are you living? In US , or UK??? And are you under 20???
P.S.2: How about using special task force to blow up the dam???

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 13:24
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 11:29
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7
To T.A.K.U.:

>>And taiwans recon power is too weak, no spy satellite, no planes like RC135, EC-130...),

-- I thought we just got Isrealis assistance on the satellite issue??

>>P.S. Kidd, where are you living? In US , or UK??? And are you under 20???

-- Why do u want to know?? :) R u trying to spy on me?? blahaha...
Here u go, I am in U.S. alone w/ only citizenship Taiwan. Will have to go home to serve my country when I am done w/ my graduate program (same major as Toga, but that major in U.S. is in graduate school). My age?? Over 20 and under 30. Now is your turn to tell me about you.


>>P.S.2: How about using special task force to blow up the dam???

-- The rumored F-117 ROC special squdron in training?

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YORK HU ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 13:27
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

TO; KIDD, §Ú´N¬O§Ú
¥Î¨µ¤|­¸¼u,¼u¹D­¸¼u¬µ¤T®l¤ôÅò ¦p¦ó?

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 14:04
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To York¥S:
³o­Ó§Ú´N¤£ª¾¹D¤F. ¦pªG¶¯2D/E©Î¶¯3ªºRange°÷»~®t¤S¯à¦b1000¤½¤Ø¥ª¥k(·Ç½TªºGPS Guide¤U). ¥i¯àÁÙ¬O­nªÅÀ¹¸û·Ç½T,¦]¤@¯ë»{¬°¨µ¤|­¸¼u¦b¥x®ü¤W¨ÃµL¤Ó¦hÅãµÛ¦a§Î¥i´M¥i¯à·|»~®tÆZ¦hªº. ¤p§Ì©Òª¾¦³­­§Ú·Q§AÁÙ¬O½Ð§Ú¥S©Î¥»ª©ªº±M®a­Ì¨Ó¬°§A§@­Ó¸Ô²Óªº¸Ñµª§a!

µù¤pº­§Àª©¥D, ¤p§Ì§Ú¤@¤£¤p¤ßdouble post¤F,½ÐÀ°§Ú§R¤@¤U. ÁÂÁÂ!!

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§Ú´N¬O§Ú ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 21:09
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

TO; KIDD, §Ú´N¬O§Ú
¥Î¨µ¤|­¸¼u,¼u¹D­¸¼u¬µ¤T®l¤ôÅò ¦p¦ó?
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2.­Y­nµo®i2000~3000km¥H¤Wµ¥¯Åªººë½T¾É¤Þ¶Wªøµ{¶Z¥~§ðÀ»­¸¼uªº¸Ü¡A©Ò­±¹ïªº°ÝÃD´N²³æ¦h¤F¡G¦b¤£¦Ò¶q®Ö¼uÀYªºª¬ªp¤U¡A­Y¸Ó«¬­¸¼u¬O¼u¹D­¸¼uªº¸Ü¡A¥xÆW¥u­n§JªA¨â¤T­¿©ó¦Ñ¦@·Q¥H¤¤µuµ{¦a¦a¼u¬ï³z©Ò¦³¨¾¿m¡Aºë½T©R¤¤¥xÆW¾Ô²¤­«Âí®É©Ò­±¹ï¤§§xÃø§Y¥i¡Q¦pªG¬O¨µ¯è­¸¼uªº¸Ü¡A¥¦¥u­n¯à¬ï³z­¸¶V¼Æ­¿¤D¦Ü¼Æ¤Q­¿©ó§ð¥x¨µ¯è­¸¼u©Ò»Ý¬ï³zªº¾Ô²¤Áa²`¡A¤£³Qµo²{À»¸¨¬J¥i¡A³o¬O¦h¼¯»´¦Ó©öÁ|ªº¤@¥ó¨Æ°Ú¡I¡I¡I¡I

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/20 22:22
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To Kidd,
Myself??? Well I am under 20, and I live in HK. I will go to US in September, for 6 years study!! ^-^
P.S:
F-117??? Will US sell it?? Only UK can send pilot to drive the state-of-the-art jet. Taiwan is not as important as UK, REMEMBER!!
So instead Taiwan should train special task force like SEAL, DELTA FORCE, and infiltrate to the dam and blow it. But if Taiwan blow the dam, then Taiwan will be totally destroyed.
Israels satellite?? You mean the commercial one?? How is the resolution?? And ca it spot the SAM site in high resolution???

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/21 10:25
Re:¦n¹³¯uªºÂ÷ÃD¤F­C...:P (©ç½Ö°Õ :))

To T.A.K.U.:
U r welcome to visit me if u want .. Where in U.S. r u coming to study?? West coast, east coast, ...or midwest (me). I just turned 25, so... However, I belong to OSU, there are many hk students that are around 20 or under. That is of course if you come to OSU, then I will hook you up! :)
About F-117, there was a sighting of a F-117 (U.S. lend to Taiwan for special mission purposes) been used by ROCAF under training at around of the Taiwans dam a couple of months ago. Again, this might be well be a rumer...

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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/21 10:28
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

>About F-117, there was a sighting of a F-117 (U.S. lend to Taiwan for special mission purposes) been used by ROCAF under training at around of the Taiwans dam a couple of months ago. Again, this might be well be a rumer...
Definitely, it is a rumor.

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/21 18:28
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

To KIDD,
I will go to MICHIGAN.


NO:348_4
Skywalker-Luke ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/28 00:01
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

Skywalker ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/21 18:51
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

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kidd ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/22 02:01
Re:MSU or U of M?

To T.A.K.U.:
I have lived in Michigan for 11 years. I went to UM for undergrad. My cousin is still there now. Lets not talk about this private stuffs on public forum. Here is my e-mail: [email protected].

Back to PLAAF Super 7!!

To Skywalker¥S:

§Ú¥H¬°¶W¤C¤w¦bprototype´ú¸Õªº¶¥¬q, 2003¦~¥ª¥k¶}©l¥Í²£¡S

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Skywalker ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/22 08:56
Re:kidd

ÄèÀ»¤C¾Ô¾÷­l¥Í«¬µo®i¦p¤U¡G
ÄèÀ»¤C¡÷¶W¤C¡÷FC-1
¥Ø«e¤w¶i¤J¤uµ{µo®i¶¥¬qªº¬OFC-1

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®ÇÆ[ªÌ2 ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/22 11:48
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

¾Ôª§¬O¸Ñ¨M¤HÃþ°ÝÃDªº³Ì´Ý§Ôªº¤â¬q
©Ò¥H¦pªG¯à¸Ñ¨M°ÝÃD(¤£ºÞ¬O°ê®aªºÁÙ¬O»â¾É¤Hªº)
¦b¥i±µ¨üªºÄ묹¤U¾Ôª§¬O·|³Q»â¾É¤H±µ¨üªº
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ÁÙ¥i¸Ñ¨M«Ü¦h°ÝÃD ¥ú¬Ý»â¾É¤H°÷¤£°÷Áo©ú ®ü¬À´N§Q¥Î¨Fºz­·¼É«áÅXÂ÷®w¼w±Ú¤H
¤µ¤Ñ¦p¥H¬µ±¼¤T®l¤jÅò¬°ªýÀ~ ¹ï¤j³°¦Ó¨¥¨Ã¤£¬O¨º»ò¤jªºªýÀ~¤O¶q
²Ä¤@ ¦b¾Ôª§µo°_®É ¥i­°§C¤ô®w¤ô¦ì¨Ó´î§C¶Ë®`
²Ä¤G ¥HªÅ­x§ðÀ»Ãø¤W¥[Ãø ¨â¤p®É¥H¤Wªº¯èµ{¦A¥[¤W¤¤¦@ªº¥[±j¨¾¦u
·íµM¥i¥H­¸¼u§ðÀ» ­Y¥Î¥H·´±¼µØ¤¤³¡¶¤ ¤S¥i¯à¾D°ê»Úªº«DÃø¤Î¤¤¦@°Ê¥Î®Ö¥Í¤ÆªZ¾¹ªº¨M¤ß ©Ò¥H«D¨ì³Ì«áÃöÀY¬O¤£¯à¥Îªº ¦Ó¥B¤@¥Î¤W¥i¯à´N¬O¥xÆW­n·´·Àªº®É­Ô ¦Ó¥BÁÙ¤£¤@©w·´ªº±¼¤¤°ê ­nª¾¹D¾Ì¤¤°ê¤j³°ªº°ê®a»{¦P·P°£¤F·sæ¦èÂÃ¥~¾÷©¿¤£¥i¯à¿W¥ß
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¥u­n°Ê¨ì«D¶Ç²ÎªZ¤O¥xÆW¤@©w¬O¿é®a

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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/22 15:36
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

®ÇÆ[ªÌ2¥S,
¦Ñ¥S¦³¨Ç°¾ÃD¤F
Åý§Ú­Ì¦^¨ì¶W7§a

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T.A.K.U. ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/23 00:24
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

Just one word: I dont want to see PRC and ROC to start war. And I think Taiwanese has prejudice to Chinese, while Chinese is too stubborn and rude.
And hope ª¢¶À¤l®] has bright future, no matter Taiwan and China unite, or remain the present status.
P.S. :Brust the dam will give a excuse to PRC to use nuclear weapons!! I agree with ®ÇÆ[ªÌ2

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boy ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/23 13:34
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

http://www.bingqi.net/china/airforce/image/su-

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T-98A1H1 ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/24 19:27
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

Dont make any daydream to attack ¤T®l¤ôÅò .The similar samples in the World War 2 0r in the Vietnam war have shown that only 20000 lbs or heavier bomb can destory a medium reservior dam,let alone ¤T®l¤ôÅò .Even though the problem of distance is neglected, I cant imagine any current TW weapons can carry such a large warhead.

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¤pº­§À ¡@©ó¡@2001/08/24 19:51
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7

¦A¦¸Án©ú¡M¶W7¡T¶W7¡T
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NO:348_6
ra ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/30 14:24
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

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NO:348_7
Áp¦X±±¨î ¡@©ó¡@2002/06/30 14:57
Re:¦³Ãö¤j³°ªº¶W7 ¡i¸ô§J´_­ì¡j

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