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NO:367_1Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 07:38
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NO:367_7·t¥ú³¾ ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 08:39
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NO:367_8§ºA¤å¤Æ ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 08:53
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NO:367_9£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 10:03
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NO:367_10OBS ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 10:55
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NO:367_11«í·R¥x ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 11:11
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NO:367_12Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 16:05
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

ªü¤½©Mªü¶ýhit½úe ¬Oti 228³±¼v kah °ê¥ÁÄÒe´Þ¥Á±Ð¨|¤U¤jº~e, ¤j³¡¤À¤w¸g³à¥¢¥Í¬°¥xÆW¤He¦Û«H,³o©M¥­®H±Ú«á¥NÅå¤H»{¥X¥ìe¨­¤À¦³¦P´Úe¾ú¥v­I´º,¥­®H±Úm±Ð«á¥N»¡¥À»y,¬OÅå«á¥NÄ~Äò³Qª[µø,chit-ma ¥xÆW¤H¹ï®a¤ve®]¤lm´±»¡¥À»y,ma¬O¤@ºØbo¦Û«H,Åå«á¥NÄ~Äòho¤H»{¥X¬O¥xÆW¤He¤@ºØ¼ç·NÃѤ߲z¤Ï®g.

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NO:367_13Doraemon ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 17:30
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

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NO:367_14£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 19:29
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

Doraemon Á¿±o¦³¹D²z §Ú«¿¤k³Ì·R¬Ý¤Ñ½uÄ_Ä_ ¤£¨ì¤G·³ ¥xµü³£®Ô®Ô¤W¤f ªü¶ý¥Õ¤Ñ±a®]¤k ¸òµÛ¥®±Ð¸`¥Ø ¥i¯à¦]¦¹¤Ï¦Ó³Q¦P¤Æ±Ð°ê»y ­Y¬O¦]¬°¦Û¨õ¦]¯À ¤£¤Ó¥i¯à±a¨à¤k®É¥Î¥x»y ±a®]¤l®]¤k®É¤Ï¦Ó¥Î°ê»y
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NO:367_15Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/21 22:16
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>>­Y¬O¦]¬°¦Û¨õ¦]¯À ¤£¤Ó¥i¯à±a¨à¤k®É¥Î¥x»y ±a®]¤l®]¤k®É¤Ï¦Ó¥Î°ê»y
¦]¬°¨º®É¤£·|¦Û¨õ
¦b¥L­Ì±a¨à¤k®É(20 or 30 ´X¦~«e)
¶S§C¥xÆW¤å¤ÆÁÙ¨S¦³¨º»òÄY­«

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NO:367_16yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 06:01
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

It is mainly due to inertia that the parents converse with their kids in mandarin. I remember several decades ago a friend (who graduated from Bak-i-Li) went back to Taiwan and surprised her father with a much improved Ho-lok Oe. Her father said to her that she went to US to learn Ho-lok Oe. She was from TamShui. How did she learn Ho-lok in the US? Because she chose to mingle with some Taiwanese with determination.
In our family, our two kids all can speak relatively fluent pidgin Ho-lok Oe. It is a strange Taiwanese with some English common usage. Like Gua BhoKin~ will come out as cheng BhoKin~. We did not teach them Chinese characters. And I am hoping that Taiwan can adopt a universal Latinized writing system as soon as possible--that will make it much easier for the young people to learn their respective mother tongues. My kids do not speak nor hear Mandarin, though.

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NO:367_17Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 06:21
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>Because she chose to mingle with some Taiwanese with determination.

¦¿Áø´¿¦b¹qµø¤W»¡ ¦oªº¨à¤l¦b¥xÆW¤£·|Á¿¥x»y ¥i¬O¨ìNew York ©À®Ñ®É½T¾Ç·|Á¿¥x»y
Ãþ¦üªº¨Ò¤l«Ü¦h

§õ»·­õ´¿»¡¹L·í¤é¥»¾Ô«ô«á®É ¥L¥u·|Á¿¤é»y ¥L¤@ª½¥H¬°¥L¬O¤é¥»¤H ©Ò¥H¥H¬°¥L­n¦^¤é¥»
§ÚªB¤Íªº¥À¿Ë ¤é¥»²Îªv®É´Á ¤]¥u·|Á¿¤é»y ¤é¥»¤H¤~½Ð®a±Ð¾Ç¥x»y
³o¨Ç¨Ò¤l³£»¡©ú¤F¤é¥»²Îªv®É´Á ¨º®É³\¦hªº¤÷¥À¿Ë¤]¥u¸ò«Ä¤lÁ¿¤é»y

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NO:367_18yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 07:50
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

There are quite some Taiwanese people living around our town. Most of the Taiwanese kids of my daughters age can hear Taiwanese but can not speak much. My daughter is a rarity among her peers-- that she speaks Taiwanese but knows nothing about Mandarin. Most other kids attended the so called Chinese school and know a little chinese characters. It is a strange phenomenon that many parents of my daughters friend enjoy talking with my daughter in Taiwanese, yet they taught and converse with their own kids in Mandarin--here in the USA. I can not find any rational reason for this other than inertia.

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NO:367_19£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 08:27
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

Jim :
>> ¦b¥L­Ì±a¨à¤k®É(20 or 30 ´X¦~«e)
>> ¶S§C¥xÆW¤å¤ÆÁÙ¨S¦³¨º»òÄY­«
§A¥i¤£¥i¥H¸ÑÄÀ¤@¤U¬°¦ó§A¦³¦¹·Pı¡A·í¤j®a´À¶m¤g»y¨¥ª§¨ú¨ì§ó¦h¥­µ¥¦a¦ì®É¡A¬°¦ó¤ÏÅý§Aı±o¥xÆW¤å¤Æ³Q¶S§C±o¤ñ¨â½±®É¥NÄY­« ¬°¦ó¤Ï¦ÓÅý¦Ñ¤@½úªº·|¹ïÁ¿¥x»y¦Û¨õ ?

¬°¤°»òÁ¿¶{«n»yªº¤H´N¤£·|Åý¤H¥H¬°¦Û¤v¬OºÖ«Ø¤H ¦Ó­n¦^ºÖ«Ø ¦ÓÁ¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü´N·|Åý¤H·Q¦^¤¤°ê ?

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NO:367_20Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 08:47
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>>It is a strange phenomenon that many parents of my daughters friend enjoy talking with my daughter in Taiwanese, yet they taught and converse with their own kids in Mandarin--here in the USA. I can not find any rational reason for this other than inertia.
¦b¥xÆW ´X¥G¨S¦³¤H·|¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥x»y
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yl ¤£ª¾§A¦³¨S¦³ª`·N¨ì
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NO:367_21Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 09:10
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>§A¥i¤£¥i¥H¸ÑÄÀ¤@¤U¬°¦ó§A¦³¦¹·Pı¡A·í¤j®a´À¶m¤g»y¨¥ª§¨ú¨ì§ó¦h¥­µ¥¦a¦ì®É¡A¬°¦ó¤ÏÅý§Aı±o¥xÆW¤å¤Æ³Q¶S§C±o¤ñ¨â½±®É¥NÄY­« ¬°¦ó¤Ï¦ÓÅý¦Ñ¤@½úªº·|¹ïÁ¿¥x»y¦Û¨õ ?

£«ÀY ¦pªG§Ú¨S°O¿ù
©p¤÷¿Ë¬O¥~¬Ù¤H¤S¦b¥x¥_ªø¤jªº
©p¥i¯à¨S¦³ ¦]Á¿¥x»y³Q±¾ª¯µP©Î»@¿úªº¸gÅç

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NO:367_22£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 10:01
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NO:367_23Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 10:34
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y


£«ÀY ©p¤£¬O¦b¬ü°ê?

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NO:367_24Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 10:50
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

¬°¤°»òÁ¿¶{«n»yªº¤H´N¤£·|Åý¤H¥H¬°¦Û¤v¬OºÖ«Ø¤H ¦Ó­n¦^ºÖ«Ø ¦ÓÁ¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü´N·|Åý¤H·Q¦^¤¤°ê ?
§Ú¥H¬°³o¬O¦]¬°¥xÆW¤HÁ¿»Ô«n¸Ü(À³¸ÓºÙHolo»y¦¹³B±q«U)¤j¬ù¤w¸g¤T¥|¦Ê¦~,©Ò¥H¤£·|¦³¥H¬°¦Û¤v¬OºÖ«Ø¤Hªº·Pı,¦ý¬O³Q­¢Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü«o¬O¤­¤Q¦~«e¶}©lªº¨Æ,¨C­Ó¤H¨­¾ú¨ä¹Ò¨ü°dªº·PıÁÙ²M·¡¦a¯O¦L¦b¤T¥|¤Q·³¥H¤Wªº¤H¤ß¤W.¤HÃþÁöµM¬Oµ½§Ñªº,¦ý°_½X¤]­n¤@¦Ê¦~¤T¥N¥H¤Wªº®É¶¡,¦pªG­n¦p£«ÀY¤p©j©Ò¿×Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü¤£·|Åý¤H·Q¦^¤¤°ê¤]³\Áٻݭn¦b¹L¤­¤Q¦~.

¡y§A´¿¸g³Q±j«Á¹L,¤ß²z¤w¸g¥­´_,²{¦b¦A³Q±j«Á¤@¦¸,¬°¤°»ò¤ß²z¤£¯à¦A¥­´_¤@¦¸©O?¡z

§Ú¥H¬°³o¬O¦]¬°¥xÆW¤HÁ¿»Ô«n¸Ü(À³¸ÓºÙ©IHolo»y¦¹³B±q«U)¤j¬ù¤w¸g¤T¥|¦Ê¦~,©Ò¥Hboe¦³¥H¬°®a¤v¬OºÖ«Ø¤He·Pı,m-koh ho lang ±j­¢Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü«o¬O¤­¤Q¦~«e¶}©le¥N»x,¨C1-e¤H¨­¾ú¨ä¹Ò¨ü°de·Pıiah²M²M·¡·¡¯O¦Lti¤T¥|¤Q·³¥H¤We¤He¤ß¤W.¤HÃþÁöµM¬Oµ½§Ñe,m-koh°_½Xma-ai¤@¦Ê¦~¤T¥N¥H¤We®É¶¡,khah-su boe ¹³£«ÀY¤p©j©Ò¿×Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Üboe ho¤H·Qtioh¤¤°ê¤H,hoan-set iah»Ý­n koh¹L¤­¤Q¥V.

¡y§Abat ho pat-e-lang ±j«Á¹L,¤ß²z¤w¸g¥­´_, chitma koh ho lang ±j«Á 1-pai,¬°¤°»ò¤ß²z boe-eng-chit koh ¥­´_ 1-pai leh?¡z

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NO:367_25Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 10:56
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

Chhan-hoaN-lai
IS ¹ü¤Æ¤H?

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NO:367_26yl ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 10:57
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

jim:
I remember that I recommended several times on this forum the best author (in my opinion) of his generation in Taiwan, Song Teh Lai to everybody who is interested in Taiwanese language, culture and identity (Taiwanese conscienciousness!). I even translated a few paragraphs of his article regarding the fallacies of multi-culturalism into English due to my inability to input Chinese characters. I would like to repeat it again that a series of editorials in the Taiwanese Literature Quarterly worth perusal. (Daiwan Shin Bun Hak, I hope it is still in publication. It is very hard to sustain this kind of literture magazine. I did not subscribed it then. I got 12 volumes in Daiwan e Diam back in 1999!)

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NO:367_27Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 11:08
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y


Song Teh Lai §º¿AµÜ ¥Lªº®ÑŪ¹L´X¥»
Taiwanese Literature Quarterly

Daiwan Shin Bun Hak ? ¥xÆW·s??

yl
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¦³§ó¦hªº¸ê·½

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NO:367_28£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 11:41
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

¥i¥H¤Wºô¸ôÅ¥ ­¸ºÐ¸ò News98 ¥u¬O­n¤p¤ß§O³Q¦P¤Æ¤F ©Î ¤Ó¥Í®ð¦Ó¦Û¶Ã°}¨¤

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NO:367_29Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 12:02
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

Dear Jim:
§Ú¬O¥xÆW¤H¦í¦b«n³¡,¥_¨Ê¸Ü»¡±o¤ñHolo¥x»y¦n,²{¦b·Q§ä¦^¥À»yªº¯à¤O,©Ò¥H¸ÕµÛ¼g¥x¤å,´N¹³¤p®É­Ô¾Ç¡y°ê»y¡z¨º¼Ë,ºCºC¦a½m²ß³y¥y,ºCºC¦a§@¤å,§Ú·Q­n´_¿³¥À»y¨M¤£¯à¥ú¾a¬F©²,¦Û¤v¥²¶·¥D°Ê,±µµÛ¤~¯àÃ@µ¦¬F©²°µ¥X²Å¦X§Ú­Ì»Ý¨Dªº¬I¬F.
Dear Jim:
Goa ¬O¥xÆW¤H toa-ti «n³¡, ¥_¨Ê¸Ü kong ka ¤ñ Holo¥x»y¦n, chit-ma ·Qboeh chhoe-hoe ¥À»ye¯à¤O,©Ò¥H½m²ß¼g¥x¤å,na¿Ë¹³²Óº~e®É°}teh¾Ç¡y°ê»y¡zanne, tau-tau-a ½m²ß³y¥y, tau-tau-a ¼g§@¤å,goa teh ·Q lan beh ´_¿³¥À»y boe-eng-chit kan-na ¾a¬F©², ka-ti ai ¥D°Ê, soah-lo-lai chiah e-tang Ã@µ¦¬F©²°µ¥X lan beh-ai-e ¬I¬F.

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NO:367_30Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 12:07
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>>§Ú¤S°Ý§Ú§Ì·@¬°¤°»ò¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥x»y¡A¦o±À»¡§Ú¦Û¤v³£Á¿¤£¦n«ç»ò±Ð¡AÁÙ¬O¥sªü¶ý±Ð§a¡C

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¤U¦¸­n°Ý§Ú¤÷¿Ë¤~ª¾¹D

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NO:367_31£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 12:18
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

Chhan-hoaN-lai :
¦]¬°§Ú¦Û¤v¨Ã¤£·|¦]¬°Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü¦Ó·Q¥h¤¤°ê ¤S¨S¦]¬°Á¿»Ô«n¸Ü¦Ó¨ü°dªº¸gÅç §Ú¥u¯à°²³]§A»¡ªº°ÝÃD¦s¦b ¦ý¤£ª¾¹D¦b¥xÆW¦ûªº¤ñ¨Ò¬O¦h¤Ö ¼vÅT¦¨­±¦³¦h¼s ¥ú¬O­Ó»y¨¥¥­µ¥ªk³£¥i§n½¤Ñ ¦Ó³Û°±

§Ú»{ÃѪº¤@¨Ç­»´ä¤H³£§V¤O¾Ç¥_¨Ê¸Ü §Ú¤£Ä±±o¥xÆW¤H¤£·|Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü´N¤£·|¦³³Q¤¤°ê²Î¤@ªº¦MÀI ¨Æ¦³»´­«½w«æ ­n½T¥ß¥xÆW¿W¥ß¨«¦V »y¨¥°ÝÃD¤£¬OÃöÁä ¦b¥Gªº¤H¥i§V¤O±À¼s ¦ý¦ì¶¥¤£¥i¶W¹L½T«O¥xÆW¿W¥ß¨«¦V ²{¦b¿Ë¤¤´CÅé ¦b¥xÆW³£¥i¥H¤½¶}«Å¶Ç¤¤°ê¦n¤F

·|Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü §Ú¬Ý¨ì³Ì¤jªº°ÝÃD¬OÅý¥xÆW¤H¸ò¤¤°ê¥´¥æ¹D §ó®e©ö °ÝÃD¬O¤j®a³£¤w¸g·|Á¿¥_¨Ê¸Ü §Ú¤]¬Ý¤£¨ì¸Ñ¨Mªº§Æ±æ §Ú¤ä«ù¬X©Ê±À¼s»Ô«n»yªº§V¤O ¦ý¤£±µ¨ü¬Y¨Ç²z¥Ñ ¥u¦]¬°¸ò§Úªº¸gÅ礣²Å

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NO:367_32OBS ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 12:35
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

¡i¤K¨ö¤s³q³ø¡j¬O«ÂÅvÅé¨î¤Uªº·|ij¡A·Q¥Ó½Ð¡i©¥ÆW¤j¾Ç¡j´N¬Ý¡A¹ü¤Æ¤H·|¤£©È¶Ü¡S±¾ª¯µP¬O¤p¨Æ¡C¥u­n¯Ê¤HÀY´N¦³¾÷·|°e°T¡AJim ¤]³\¤£ª¾¹D¦¹³q³ø¯u¥¿¤º¹õ¡C
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NO:367_33Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 12:51
Re:¬°¦ó¤÷¥À¿Ë ©Î¯ª¤÷¥À¤£¸ò¤p«ÄÁ¿¥À»y

>>>¡i¤K¨ö¤s³q³ø¡j¬O«ÂÅvÅé¨î¤Uªº·|ij¡A·Q¥Ó½Ð¡i©¥ÆW¤j¾Ç¡j´N¬Ý¡A¹ü¤Æ¤H·|¤£©È¶Ü¡S±¾ª¯µP¬O¤p¨Æ¡C¥u­n¯Ê¤HÀY´N¦³¾÷·|°e°T¡AJim ¤]³\¤£ª¾¹D¦¹³q³ø¯u¥¿¤º¹õ¡C
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obs §Ú¤£¤Ó²M·¡§Aªº·N«ä¬O¤°»ò ½Ð»¡©ú¤@¤U

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NO:367_34OBS ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 15:45
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¡i¤K¨ö¤s³q³ø¡j´N¬O¨C¤ë³q³øºÞ°Vªº¦W³æ¡A¨S¦³¬yª]´N³ø¬Fªv¥Ç¡A³o­Ó®ø®§§A·|¤£ª¾¹D¡C²{¦b¸Ó¨S¦³¨º¼h¼~¼{¤~¹ï¡A³£¤Q¦h¦~¨S¦^¥h¡A©Ò¥H¤£¬O«Ü²M·¡¥L­Ìªº¹B§@¡C¨S¦³§Oªº·N«ä¡C

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NO:367_35²M¨à ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 15:52
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NO:367_36Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 17:27
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NO:367_37Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/22 17:42
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NO:367_41Pinus ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 03:10
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NO:367_42¸ô¹Lªº ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 03:59
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NO:367_43Chhan-hoaN-lai ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 16:03
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NO:367_44£«ÀY ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 21:10
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NO:367_45Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 21:41
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NO:367_47Jim ¡@©ó¡@2003/05/23 22:09
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Dear Jim:

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