有關電子戰的幾個問題
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LUZE 於 2003/12/08 23:37 | |
有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
1.使用方位干擾時,假目標與真目標對於被干擾對象的視角差有多大?或是說假目標會離真目標多遠? 2.假設有種雷達不受噪音干擾,那麼是否有方法可以讓他測到錯的距離? |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/09 12:57 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
1. It depends on the type of radar (ie. what tracking technique it uses) and what type of deception jamming technique you use. In the classic case of ALQ-51 (CIA System 13 used on the U-2) vs the Fan Song radar of the SA-2 SAM, the jammer is a repeater - it receives S-band signals from the Fan Song and sends them back with an error introduced. The Fan Song receives the re-transmitted signal in its side-lobes which introduces errors in the angle tracking system. How far the repeater jammer was able to move the false target away from the real one in the Fan Song s tracking was was the subject of intense research. Secret ELINT missions using C-97 transports flying in the Berlin air corridor recorded the Fan Song s antenna pattern, operating frequencies and power output. A radar (SADS-1) matching the intercepted characteristics was built and the jammer tested against it. Adjustments were made to the repeater jammer until it was able to move the false target a safe distance away from the real one. System 13 and ALQ-51 was used effectively to protect the user aircraft on many occasions over China and North Vietnam. However, counter-counter measures were developed. First, the ChiCom introduced Lobe On Receive Only (LORO) on their Fan Songs in 1963. A dish antenna on top of the Lewis scanners sends a non-scanning beam to illuminate the target while the Lewis scanners scanned on receive only. The RWR only receives a non-scanning signal, the pilot may think that he is not being tracked and not switch the System 13 from stand-by to transmit. This was how the U-2 flown by Chang Li-yi was shot down over Paotow. Worse still, missile fragments severed the wiring of the self-destruct charge for the System 13 on Chang s U-2. The system was compromised. The ChiCom realized System 13 was a deception repeater and the signals were entering through the Fan Song s side lobes. A Circuit 28 was developed that greatly reduced the effect of the deception jamming. This is almost certainly a side-lobe blanking system. The U-2 of Hwang Rong-pei was shot down in 1967 using a Fan Song equipped with this ECCM device. ChiCom accounts indicate that once it was switched on, the ECCM Circuit 28 blanked out the effect of the jammer. Later on, other more effective jammers were developed to defeat the improved Fan Songs. (ARMs also helped.) 2. Antiship missile seekers often have a Home-on-Jam capability - so it is not a good idea to use noise jamming. They also may have ECCM features such as a Range Gate where its radar seeker would ignore signals outside of the expected target range it has locked on to. A good repeater jammer can defeat the Range Gate by using a technique called Range Gate Pull Off. The jammer re-transmits the signal it receives from the missile seeker with very small time delays so that the signals are still within the Range Gate. Gradually, the repeater jammer increases the time delay of the re-transmitted signal (making the seeker think the target is farther away than it really is) until the seeker is tracking the jamming signal rather than the real target. This makes the angle deception jamming to be more likely to break the missile seeker s lock on its target. The old ULQ-6 jammer which equipped the FRAM I Gearing/Yang DDs used RGPO. |
LUZE 於 2003/12/09 16:00 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
功率呢?如果干擾機功率不夠高(跟被干擾雷達比起來),納的當他加在被干擾方的脈衝之間時,是否會因強度不夠而被濾調? |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/09 22:44 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
>功率呢?如果干擾機功率不夠高(跟被干擾雷達比起來),納的當他加在被干擾方的脈衝之間時,是否會因強度不夠而被濾調? Well, what do you think? Signal-to-Noise-Ratio (SNR) ... Automatic Gain Control (AGC) at the radar receiver ... Here is what the text book says: What is Range Gate Pulloff in radar? Targets being tracked using range gates can attempt to employ a tactic known as range-gate pull off (RGPO) or range-gate stealing. The target uses a jammer to transmit the appropriate electromagnetic energy back to the tracking radar at the appropriate time and power level. Over the subsequent few pulses, the jammer progressively increases its transmitted power. This increased power is welcomed by the receiver circuitry and the receiver gain levels are progressively wound down to accommodate the increased received power. The receiver is, therefore, becoming increasingly de-sensitised to the real received energy. Once this process has continued for a short period of time, the receiver has become too insensitive to receive the real signal levels from the target alone. At this point, the target is said to have stolen or captured the range gates. Once the range gates have been stolen, the target can either switch the jamming off and force the radar to reacquire (taking valuable time for the AGc to adjust) or the jammer can commence transmitting false returns at ever increasing (or decreasing) time intervals to the tracking radar in an attempt to walk the tracker away from the target. Either way, the target has successfully performed deception jamming of the tracking radar.
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LUZE 於 2003/12/10 10:34 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
多謝提供寶貴的資料! 可見距離干擾的確與功率有關,只是有沒有可能因干擾機功率太小而干擾失敗呢?所以我想知道一般機載干擾機的功率 |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/13 09:32 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
Recent developments in mini- traveling wave tube (TWT) amplifiers have allowed great radiated power to be packaged in small volumes needed for airborne jammers. Remember, even with high radiated power, a radar has to detect an echo reflected back from a distant target with signal propagation losses subject to the inverse square law. The jammer has less to do to produce a signal of sufficient gain to match that of an echo. It is when the jamming plane gets too close that the radar s signal might over-power the jamming signal. At closer range, a radar is more likely to achieve 《burn through》 of noise jamming (achieve high enough signal-to-noise ratio to overcome the jamming signal). A number of B-52s were lost to SA-2 over North Vietnam when they came too close to the Fan Song guidance radar and the radar signal managed to burn through the self-protection jammers of the B-52. The same could apply to deception jamming signals. |
LUZE 於 2003/12/14 00:03 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
其實探測雷達的回波強度差不多是與距離四次方成反比,而干擾波的功率則是隨二次方衰減。並非全為二次衰減。 |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/15 16:12 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
>其實探測雷達的回波強度差不多是與距離四次方成反比,而干擾波的功率則是隨二次方衰減。並非全為二次衰減。 Oh come on, surely I can assume that people know that when I wrote - propagation loss subject to the inverse square law - it mean that the loss applied to both the outbound signal path and that of the echo (while the jamming signal is only subject to propagation loss one way). |
Zenobia 於 2003/12/16 00:35 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
Oh come on, surely I can assume that people know that when I wrote - propagation loss subject to the inverse square law - it mean that the loss applied to both the outbound signal path and that of the echo (while the jamming signal is only subject to propagation loss one way). No, you cant, bro...:) There are very few people here who know how that 4th power rule came to being, so they have no idea that rule is a corollary to the inverse square law. |
濱線 於 2003/12/16 06:12 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
請教fer-de-lance兄 >First, the ChiCom introduced Lobe On Receive Only (LORO) on their Fan Songs in 1963. 請問LORO系統是由PLA發展出來的嗎﹖ >A dish antenna on top of the Lewis scanners sends a non-scanning beam
小弟有時沒空上網﹐先說聲謝謝 |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/16 10:55 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
>請問LORO系統是由PLA發展出來的嗎﹖ No, that was introduced by the Soviet Union. The first Soviet SAM system to use LORO for ECCM was the S-125 (NATO: SA-3 Goa). The RSN-125 fire control radar(NATO: LOW BLOW) had a single antenna that illuminated the target for two separate arrays to scan on receive. This system was developed in the late 1950s ChiCOM technicians sent to the Soviet Union for training on the V-75 (SA-2) would have been exposed to this technique. With the break down in Sino-Soviet relations, SA-3 and LOW BLOW was never transferred but the ChiCOMs developed their own LORO add-on for their FAN SONGs. The operational concept would have come from the Soviets but the ChiCOM developed their own version. >那麼據小弟淺見認為照明是一種雷達波持續照射行為﹐RWR應該相當頻繁接收到這種 No, the illuminating radar uses pulsed signals to provide range data - it is not continuous wave (CW). The illuminaing beam would not be scanning and to the simple RWR of the period it would not appear to be locked-on and tracking. Previously, the Lewis scanners of the FAN SONG would be sending beams sweeping left-and-right as well as up-and-down. When they lock on to their target, the sweeps would be concentrated around a narrower zone around the target and the pulse repetition factor (PRF) would increase to give more precise angular tracking and ranging. An RWR like System 12 would detect the increase in sweeps and the increased PRF and warn the pilot with a flashing light and a line trace on the display. The non-scanning signal from the illuminating dish would not appear to be an imminentthreat on the RWR and the pilot may not realize he is being tracked (on receive only) and would not take countermeasures in time. Chang Li-yi recalled that just before he was shot down, he saw a weak trace on the System 12 display and the warning light was on showing S-band radiation but did not flash. He hesistated, not sure whether to turn on the System 13 deception jammer. Unfortunately, SA-2 missiles were already on their way and his U-2 was hit and went down. |
濱線 於 2003/12/16 14:18 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
謝謝fer-de-lance兄 再請教蠢問題﹐照明雷達是提供距離資料﹐而非掃描﹐所以其PRF值低﹐而不足以引 |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/17 00:22 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
There are no stupid questions - well, maybe the only stupid ones are those you do not ask! PRF is not the only clue that an RWR gets when a radar is tracking. When tracking radars is trying to acquire a target, it scans over a wider area. For a conical scan radar like SON-9 the beam would be scanned in a wider spiral scan pattern. When they lock-on to a target, the scan patterns would be much narrower to generate more precise tracking in angle. The APR-25 RWR developed from System 12 gave audio indication of the scan rate so that the pilot can tell when the radar has locked on. In the final engagement phase, the PRF of the fire control radar may be increased to give more precise tracking in range. System 12 had a 《High PRF warning light》 that gave warning when FAN SONG goes to the high PRF in preparation for launching missiles. Use a lower PRF radar to provide precision tracking before switching to the High PRF at the last minute to support missile launch and System 12 will not give enough warning time. That was how Terry Li (Nan-ping) was shot down. For a Track While Scan radar like FAN SONG, the Lewis scanners would be sweeping its azimuth beam left-and-right and its elevation beam up-and-down over over a wide sector (20 degrees). The beams interect in a 10 degree by degree sector in the middle. If you find yourself in that sector (and the FAN SONG keeps you in that sector) then you know you are being tracked precisely and missile launch may be imminent. The See-Sams receiver gives warning of when you are being centered in this Azimuth Sector and activates a warning light. This light is called the A.S. light and the pilots quickly nicked named it the《Aw Shit》light! When operating under LORO, ie. the ChiCOM version of the Soviet FAN SONG-E, the A.S. light would not give warning that you are 《centered》 and being tracked. That was how ... Chang Li-yi was ... etc. SA-2 in command guided using a C-band uplink. When you receive THAT signal, you know missile(s) are on their way. The APR-26 was developed to detect the SA-2 command link signals. This was, again developed from a system first used by the CIA on U-2 (the WR-300). A warning light dubbed the O.S. - Oscar Sierra officially and 《Oh Shit》by the pilots - gave warning of the C-band guidance signal being transmitted. Semi-active radar homing missiles use continuous wave (CW) illumination which has a completely different set of characteristics. If you are being tracked by a pulse radar eg. STRAIGHT FLUSH of the SA-6, and then a CW signal is detected, you know you are being illuminated for a missile launch. Modern computerized RWR systems are able to discriminiate between and identify threats operating on different modes better than the old hard-wired ones (where you seem to have a new system with a new threat). However, the problem is how to give the pilot useful warning and not overload him/her! |
濱線 於 2003/12/17 07:57 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
fer-de-lance兄 Thank you very much for this radar 101. Even you had answered my possible question regarding TWS. > The APR-26 was developed to detect the SA-2 command link signals. Well, it rises another question. I know ROCAFs mirage 2000 having similar setup to detect the link between active radar AAM and the launching fighter. However, I did not learn such feature was equipped with any US fighter. Or I am wrong? mmm... most likely. |
矛頭蝮蛇 於 2003/12/18 02:29 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
> Thank you very much for this radar 101. 不客氣,覺得有點像寫武俠小說裡比武時「出招」、「解破」... 「中招」... >>The APR-26 was developed to detect the SA-2 command link signals. >Well, it rises another question. I know ROCAFs mirage 2000 having similar setup to detect the link between active radar AAM and the launching fighter. However, I did not learn such feature was equipped with any US fighter. Or I am wrong? mmm... most likely. ROCAF 戰機的電戰系統有甚麼功能不敢置評. Alfred Price 曾對「電戰」的報導有以下的評論: 「懂的不願說、願說的多半不懂」 我兩個都不是所以要承認 Whiskey Bravo Delta (WBD:「我不懂」! ) 先進的電戰系統截收信號的能力很高,問題是截收到「信號」本身不等於得到有用的「資料」。要辨認出信號是甚麼作用就要依賴 ELINT 電子情報的「烏鴉」哥兒們。 某戰機的某型電戰系統能提供甚麼的警報多半是電子情報單位的功勞。俄羅斯先進戰機、雷達和飛彈的各種參數、資料等都已經洩漏給西方。某戰機的某型電戰系統能辨認出「羅宋」(Russian) 飛彈的中段導引指揮資料鏈的頻率應該不是意外的事。 這可能就是某廠商的「獨門暗器」。不過,誰有甚麼「暗器」、這些「傢伙」靈不靈就 ... Tango X-ray Delta |
濱線 於 2003/12/20 01:05 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
哈哈哈 謝謝矛頭蝮蛇兄﹐收穫良多 先祝老兄聖誕快樂 PS﹕可能有些網友不了解什麼是(Tango X-ray Delta)TXD﹐應該是指“天殺的” |
Zenobia 於 2003/12/20 02:33 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
是「天曉得」啦... |
濱線 於 2003/12/20 03:26 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
>是「天曉得」啦... 哈哈哈 |
fer-de-lance 於 2003/12/24 12:53 | |
Re:有關電子戰的幾個問題 | |
Yes, Merry Christmas to all (Peace on Earth, Good will towards men and all that ...) Special thanks to Zenobia for providing - clarifying interpretions - of my posts :) |
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