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NO:289_22
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NO:289_23
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NO:289_25
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NO:289_26
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NO:289_27
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NO:289_28
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NO:289_29
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NO:289_30
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NO:289_38
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NO:289_39
Pikachuu ¡@©ó¡@2003/10/31 18:15
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NO:289_40
rockitten ¡@©ó¡@2003/10/31 18:21
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NO:289_41
ra ¡@©ó¡@2003/10/31 19:08
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NO:289_42
ra ¡@©ó¡@2003/10/31 19:39
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NO:289_43
ra ¡@©ó¡@2003/10/31 19:52
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NO:289_44
cobrachen ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/01 01:21
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NO:289_45
³·­· ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/01 15:48
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

­Ó¤H¬O¦P·NRA¦Ñ¤jªºÆ[ÂI¡A·í®É¤¤°êªÅ­x­¸¦æ­û§Ü¼Äªººë¯«»P«i®ð¬OµL±e¸mºÃ¡A¦ý¨ó½Õ»P¬ö«ß«o¦³«Ü¤jªº°ÝÃD¡A¦Ó³o´N¦³¤Ó¦h¨Ò¤l¥i´`¡C­è½¤F¤@¤UÂîѦAŪ¨Ç¸ê®Æ¡A¤¤°ê¤§Ál²Ä¤G¿èùØÁ¿¨ì°¨¤BÅF¬µ¾÷¶¤ªºÂзÀ¸g¹L¡A´N¥R¥¸µÛÃø¥H¸ÑÄÀªºÂ÷ÃСA·í®É°ê­x¶È¦³6¬[°êÄ_¯ÅMartin 139W¡A²Ä¤@¬[ªº·l¥¢¥ç¬O¦b³¯¯Ç¼w­±«e°µ²Ä¤@¦¸­¸¦æ®É´Nµo¥Í­«¸¨¦a¡A¤ÞÀº²æ¸¨¾÷¨­ÄY­«§é·´¦Ó³ø¾P¡C³¯¯Ç¼w¨ì¤¤°ê¬Ý¤F¨º»ò¦hºL¾÷¡AÃø©Ç¥G«á¨Ó·|¦³°ê»Ú§ÓÄ@¶¤¥H¤Î§ó«á­±ªº¬ü°ê§ÓÄ@¶¤ªº¤è®×¡C³o½g¤å³¹ùØ¥çÁ¿¨ì°¨¤BÅF¬µ¾÷©M¦ë§JHe-111A¦bÅX³v¾÷±»Å@¤UÁp¦X¥XÀ»ªø¦¿¤fªº¸g¹L¡A¨Æ«eªº¥ô°ÈÀÀ©w³º¬Oª§½×¤£¥ð°ª¶¥­x©x¨S¦³¥D¨£¡A¤W°}¬O¤£«ö³¹¸`¶i¦æ¦U­¸¦Uªº¡A¾É­PHe-111A¾÷¶¤³Q¤é¾÷³ò§ð·l¥¢ºG­«¡A¦Ó´X¤Ñ«á¤S¦³µo¥Í¦Û¤vHawk IIÀ»¸¨He-111AÁÙ°l±þ°¨¤BÅF¬µ¾÷¡A©]¶¡ÅF¬µ¤é­x°}¦a¤£Ãö¯è¦æ¿O·í­¸¹vªº©Ç¨Æ¡C¤p§Ì¤]ı±o¯uªº¤¤°êªºªÅ¤¤ªZ¤O¯à¦³¿ìªkºÙ§@¡uªÅ­x¡v½T¹ê¬O³¯¯Ç¼w·þ¾É¤U©ø©ú¯è®Õ¥X¨Óªº¡A¥H¤Î­u¬ü¨ü°V¨º§å¤H¦^°ê¤~ºâ¬O¡C

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NO:289_46
ATF ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/01 16:19
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

³ÅÃè·u

Hello! How are you? You are a good researcher and ROCAF lover just like your brother.

Regards.


NO:289_47
fer-de-lance ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/06 22:46
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

Now, now, Yukikaze, sorry ³·­· , while Chennault made great contributions to ROCAF training, the contributions of the Jouett Mission, Swan Island Flight School, the Luftwaffe and the Japanese Army Air Force cannot be neglected.

For its size, the Portland Chinese Aviation School at Swan Island probably made the biggest contribution in training ROCAF pilots that made an impact in the Sino-Japanese War. They produced pursuit pilots like Art Chin (Chen Rui-tian), John Wong (Huang Pan-yang), Clifford Louie (Lei Yan-jun) - bomber pilots like Sam Chong (Chang Shen) and Yang Chung-An. Two made ace and two made deputy CiC of the ROCAF - not bad for a tiny operations with one Fleet biplane trainer funded by donations!

Art Chin and John Wong was sent by the Cantonese Provinical Air Force to Laagerlechfeld in Germany for advanced pursuit training where they learned a lot about gunnery and advanced fighter tactics.

Johns description of how he shot down Lt Cdr Nitta, hikotaicho of the Kanoya Ku over Chuyung Aug. 16th, 1937 demonstrated how well he had honed his skills. John was flying a Boeing 281 (export version of the P-26) and he closed in on the blind spot of the G3M where one of the vertical tail surfaces blanked out the field of fire (and line of sight) of the two top turret gunners.) At that position, the belly dust bin turret gunner also could not bring his gun to bear on the Boeing. In that position with zero deflection and same relative speed, John was able to shoot up the G3M and send it down in flames.

The blue-on-blue involving the Hawk II and the He-111A occurred much later than the Aug. 25 debacle. It also had a connection with Portland. The Hawk II was Art Chins aircraft that had been damaged on Aug. 16th. Art had been frustrated with the lack of fire power and asked Sebie Smith to beg, borrow or steal a 50 cal for jis Hawk II. The gun was installed but Art was sent elsewhere and never flew this Hawk II (No. 2802 I believe). Another pilot had flown the plane into Hankow when the air raid alarm went off. During the subsequent inquiry, the Cantonese pilots thought the Central Air Force was using the cadet Yan as a scape goat because they found it hard to believe a cadet without gunnery training could shoot down a bomber single-handedly in the dark. Well, Arts revelation about the Hawks upgraded armament may provide part of the anwser. (Plus, the cadet may have been a virtuoso in gunnery - losing him was such a waste. It was just like losing Raymond Wong who had to escape to Hong Kong after accidentally bombing a US liner in Shanghai in 37).

As for the JAAFs contribution. It should be remembered that part of the Kwangsi Provinicial Air Force received advanced trained at Akeno. The one ace they produced, Chu Chia-hsun was trained by the Japanese.

As for the accidental bombing of the Bund and the amusement park, the story about the malfunctioning bomb racks was a complete fabrication by a Overseas Propaganda unit. (The scape goat there was the Northrop that was damaged by a JNAF Type 95 floatplane which killed the gunner and wounded the pilot - very convenient to blame it on a wounded pilot and damaged plane. Problem was, the Northrop had already dropped its bombs when it was attacked.

The culprits were someone else, the first was probably a Northrop bomber crew who ignored Chennaults instructions to make straight and level bomb runs. There were low clouds and one plane released its bomb on the Izumo in a shallow dive. It overshot and landed in the city.

Not too sure about the second bomb. Always had an aversion to investigating this tragedy. It was sad and finding the truth served no purpose other than to embarrass someone in the 2nd Bomb Group or the ROCAF as a whole.

Its like the accidental bombing of the Jeanne dArc school in Copenhagen during the successful RAF raid on the gestapo HQ at the Shellhouse - I can figure out from the reports who was responsible but ... WHAT FOR? ... Even the parents of the children who were killed refused to place blame on the RAF pilots - these pilots risked their lives and had saved many Danes by destroying the gestapo HQ and records. War is cruel, often futile ... it causes more grief and dismay than any amount of glory or elation can make up for. (Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ...)


NO:289_48
rockitten ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/07 08:17
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

To fer-de-lance ¡@

Mroe bitter truth is , that cadet who shot down the He-111A0, because kicked out of RoCAF after that incident, he flee to Nanjing Wong Jing Wais pro-japanese regime and become an air force Major on 1945. He was given a death sentance on 1946.

NO:289_49
fer-de-lance ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/07 09:23
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

Yes, Peng Chou, the cadet with the tragic fate. Class 7 (Pursuit), of the ROCAF Academy if I remember correctly. He actually made Colonel in the Wang Air Force.

And I thought the Wile E, Coyote had bad luck ...


NO:289_50
³·­· ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/08 13:31
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

Mr. fer-de-lance

Thanks for your valuable information.
Here is one question. The hikotaicho of the Kanoya Ku, Nitta was Commander or Lieutenant Commander?


NO:289_51
fer-de-lance ¡@©ó¡@2003/11/08 23:35
Re:¨Ó½Í½Í"¸c¾ô­^¯P¶Ç"ªº¯u¹ê»P¶Ç»¡

Nittas rank at the time of his death was Lieutenant Commander. He was posthumously promoted to Commander per JNAF practice (see Abe, Kaigun Kokusen, publ. 1939 (Tokyo), p247 US Library of Congress Call No. DS777.53.A66 1939 Orn Jpn.

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